A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Discuss/post fan stuff (images, fictions, games...)

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Zubon » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:52 am

If we all only followed reason then the world would be like Equilibrium, or 1984. -_-<p>And rules 3 and 6 do contradict each other in the sense that one says "The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason" but the other one says "passion rules reason", so how can you ever let the only thing ruling you be reason if passion rules it?<p>If you've ever seen the movie The Abyss you'll see at the end how passion can so often be a bad thing, but just look at what it can acheive when it's used in the right way. :)
Zubon
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Zubon » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:55 am

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Zubon</i><p>Listening to reason isn't always good. If someone was in a burning building and only had a 1% chance to survive a "logical" person wouldn't take the risk, but if you were brave and/or loved that person you would risk it to save them. If you think that standing there and listening to a loved one's screams as they burn alive, just because it was "rational" to save them, then that's just wrong. Not saying that you think that, I'm just knocking the logic thing.</blockquote><p><blockquote><i>Originally posted by Dorrinal Blackmantle</i><p>If you kill yourself in this situation, then you are wrong. You have a moral obligation to stay alive.<p></blockquote><p>I'd say the moral obligation is to save the one you love, rather than standing there apathetically using calculus to decide what flavour of milkshake to have later... %)
Zubon
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Dorrinal Blackmantle » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:48 pm

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Zubon</i><br>And rules 3 and 6 do contradict each other in the sense that one says "The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason" but the other one says "passion rules reason", so how can you ever let the only thing ruling you be reason if passion rules it?</blockquote><p>Reason rules You.<br>Passion rules Reason.<br>You may then infer that Passion rules You, but that is not a contradiction.<p>Furthermore, the rule "The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason" is a rule to live one's life by. The other rule is a simple assertion. So a person following the Wizard's Rules would strive to act rationally and never succumb to passion (which would then rule his/her reason).<p>Your assertion about moral obligation is naive. Your own personal survival outweighs the survival of another. Calculate that the risk to your life is too great, and the correct action would be to stay alive. Rushing in to save a loved one may be noble and require accepting a greater risk to one's life, but it is not always the best thing to do.<br><p>[size=small][Edit by Dorrinal Blackmantle on [TIME]1113771733[/TIME]][/size]
Dorrinal Blackmantle
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby LaconianShot » Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:09 pm

Wrong interpretation, Zubon. Rule 3 in it's context means that passion rules people's actions, even though it should not. It's a statement, just as Rule 1 is a statement that people choose to believe what they want to. It's not suggesting that passion should rule reason.
LaconianShot
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Lord Khyron » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:42 am

Yes, Laco and Dorrinal explained it perfectly.<p>
Lord Khyron
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Zubon » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:49 pm

Actually your own survival isn't always greater than the survival of someone else, because (A) If that was true, why would people ever sacrifice themselves? and (B) it's actually been proven that it's not "ourselves" that we want to survive, but our genes or ones similar. <p>That's why a mom or dad may die to save their son, because he is "them". A friend may die for another friend becuase instinctively he feels that his friends genes should continue, i.e. his genes have approves his friends. My friend does Biochemistry at one of the best Universities in England, so I really can't be bothered to argue about that.<p>Everyone keeps missing the point of what I'm saying; the contradiction is utterly tied in to the fact that he says "the only sovereign that you can allow to rule you is reason" and that he states as an inflexible fact "passion rules reason".<p>So, if it is a rule that you can only allow reason to rule you, but it's also a rule that passion always rules reason then there is no need for rule 6. Rule 3 contradicts rule 6 out of existence.<p>NOTE: I would just like to add, that I think it's ironic that the sort of people that would read a Terry Goodkind book and then take the "Wizard's Rules" to heart aren't going to let passion rule them anyway. Very passionate people aren't going to follow rules anyway, let alone ones from a fantasy novel.<p>It's a bit like when it says "Please do not make illegal copies of this game" on a videogame; the only sorts of people that would follow that rule are the sorts of people who wouldn't need to be told not to break the law. People that were willing to break the law anyway aren't going to be deterred by a little easily ignorable rule etched onto a DVD. :)<p>[size=small][Edit by Zubon on [TIME]1114015978[/TIME]][/size]<br><p>[size=small][Edit by Zubon on [TIME]1114016094[/TIME]][/size]
Zubon
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Lord Khyron » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:38 am

If you violate the 3rd rule, then you also violate the 6th.<p>The rules exist to keep you from making mistakes. If you follow the 6th, you will never break the third.<p>If you break the 3rd, the 6th doesn't matter, you broke it as well.<p>You also violate the 1st rule.<p>The 3rd rule is used to explain the actions of others, while the 6th is for yourself to follow.<p>If you follow the 6th, you will never break the 3rd or the first.<p>Others will let their "passion rule reason" Because of the 1st rule.<p>Here.. example<p>Let's say that I get cussed our or I get threatening phone calls and threats. Also, someone I love is threatened to the point that I get pissed. My friend also gets those calls. He knows not the Wizard's rules, but I do.<p>Because I know that the "Only Sovereign I can allow to rule myself is REASON" I am going to be reasonable and realize that beating the shit out of the person who harrassed me, is the wrong thing to do. I'll wind up in jail when they press charges and they will win. So therefore, I am reasonable and I ignore it. <p>My friend, on the other hand, doesn't know the 6th rule and goes and beats the hell out of the other person. As a result, he winds up in jail or prosecuted.<p>As you see, my friend violated the 3rd rule, whereas I followed the 6th and stayed safe.<p>If you violate the 3rd, you will never be able to follow the 6th. <p>The 3rd and the 6th go hand in hand. <p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1114044080[/TIME]][/size]
Lord Khyron
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Dorrinal Blackmantle » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:54 pm

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Zubon</i><p>Actually your own survival isn't always greater than the survival of someone else, because (A) If that was true, why would people ever sacrifice themselves? and (B) it's actually been proven that it's not "ourselves" that we want to survive, but our genes or ones similar.</blockquote><p>Sacrificing oneself is often irrational. People do not always act upon reason.<p><blockquote>That's why a mom or dad may die to save their son, because he is "them". A friend may die for another friend becuase instinctively he feels that his friends genes should continue, i.e. his genes have approves his friends. My friend does Biochemistry at one of the best Universities in England, so I really can't be bothered to argue about that.</blockquote><p>Sure, there is an instinctive desire to protect those we love. Is that reason talking, or is it passion? I would want to save my child from dying but, and this may seem really callous here, can't you just have more children?<p>No one here is going to argue with you about biochemistry and quite frankly no one here gives a rat's ass about your friend. Reread that and see how arrogant you sound. :)<p><blockquote>Everyone keeps missing the point of what I'm saying; the contradiction is utterly tied in to the fact that he says "the only sovereign that you can allow to rule you is reason" and that he states as an inflexible fact "passion rules reason".</blockquote><p>You are missing the point because everyone has told you that you are wrong and explained why.<p><blockquote>So, if it is a rule that you can only allow reason to rule you, but it's also a rule that passion always rules reason then there is no need for rule 6. Rule 3 contradicts rule 6 out of existence.</blockquote><p>No, it just means that you have to avoid passion because it will rule your reason. There is no contradiction! It's all in the word "allow". You can allow yourself to be ruled by reason, but you can't stop reason from being ruled by passion. So do not allow passion. How about we rewrite the rule a little longer:<p>Passion rules reason. There is nothing you can do about it. Since you are following rule 3, avoid passion at all times.<p>Or how about we rewrite 3 + 6 combined as a cliche:<br>"Do not let emotions cloud your judgement"<p><blockquote>NOTE: I would just like to add, that I think it's ironic that the sort of people that would read a Terry Goodkind book and then take the "Wizard's Rules" to heart aren't going to let passion rule them anyway. Very passionate people aren't going to follow rules anyway, let alone ones from a fantasy novel.<p>It's a bit like when it says "Please do not make illegal copies of this game" on a videogame; the only sorts of people that would follow that rule are the sorts of people who wouldn't need to be told not to break the law. People that were willing to break the law anyway aren't going to be deterred by a little easily ignorable rule etched onto a DVD. :)</blockquote><p>Heh. Good point. But I imagine there are people who strive to act reasonably and rationally, but let their emotions get the better of them. You know, like running into burning buildings to save children ;)<br>
Dorrinal Blackmantle
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Gipper » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:07 pm

There are times where passion needs to rule reason. If passion didn't rule reason, would we have firefighters, soldiers, or police officers? These people, against reason, are willing to sacrifice themselves for others, for the passion of their friends, family, and country. Without them, the world would be run by criminals and anarchists.<br>Reason tells a firefighter: <i>Stay away from that fire: it is dangerous.</i> But passion tells the same firefighter: <i>You have to help those who can't help themselves.</i>
Gipper
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Dorrinal Blackmantle » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:03 pm

More like, "I am well equipped and trained to fight this fire." and accept the risk involved. :)<p>Helping people who can't help themselves is overrated. Children excepted.
Dorrinal Blackmantle
 

A PS MMORPG fan game (just an idea)

Postby Lord Khyron » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:31 pm

Terry Goodkind isn't a national bestseller for nothing. Nor has he been popular for 13 years if he wasn't good.<p>The Wizard's Rules can be applied to life and make my life much easier.<p>When I would get pissed at the stupid people, or stupid actions, I would violate the 3rd rule and get my blood pressure high. Following one of the rules, I realize that stupid people will always be stupid. There is no changing them.<p>Wives who get abused and near death 5 times, who still go back, Will never change. Why should I be passionate, and violate reason, to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves?<p>With the 6th rule, I can ignore them and be happy. <p>Realizing the First and Third, I can stay calm. I can ignore someone being a idiot and let them deal with their fate.<p>Someone tries to pick a fight with me? Why the hell do I need to get upset over someone violating the 1st and 3rd and beat him up, therebye getting charges pressed against me?<p>I don't. Realizing those rules makes life much easier.<p>Plus, as a Psychology major, they fit most of the concepts. <p>The rules help me be a rational, calm person. <p>Why don't you try applying some of them to real life and seeing how much of a calmer, better person it makes you.<p>P.S. Firefighters are paid to do what they do, They do not do it, they do not get paid. They don't let passion rule them.
Lord Khyron
 

Previous

Return to Fan stuff

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest