Vintage RPG Maker

Discuss/post fan stuff (images, fictions, games...)

Postby Abominae » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:14 pm

Good thing that my PSG isn't a mod then, huh?

As for my PS3 prequel, I've got that covered too...

And my TGA remake.

So F*** those laws. I win!
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Postby mikepjr » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:51 pm

Lol, wow... i really wish i had not brought the topic of legal software up... i was just saying why i would not post them.
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Postby Seizaku » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:57 pm

Mmm.. Well then according to Sei, bad news for importers or translators.

According to his beliefs, owning games or programs that will NEVER see a US release is bad. Very bad!

I suppose this US law doesn't matter either?

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/23/us-co ... re-rights/

Ahem, quote exactly when I said it's prohibited to import things? I said that from a the perspective of the international law (nearly all countries in the world have signed the Bern Convention that rules over this aspect), having programs that you didn't paid for and acquired by illegally downloading is a violation of copyright. But I guess Zentradis can't catch basic concepts as they're not familiar with human customs, right? *in-joke with your avatar and robotech*. It does mean also that romhacking, sprite editing, etc is a violation of international copyright law, though everyone rarely care for it.

This US law also only applies to those copies are made for security and archiving purposes, not distribution, so it's still illegal to 'share' those files by internet. The archive of software made with them also don't make them available to download.

IDSA sent a cease and desist order in 1997 to all sites distributing 'abandonware', and most where shut by the time, others have risen since them, but they can be sued anytime if developers wanted. LucasArts and Corel have been prosecuting people by years for distributing their games and programs illegally. Some like id Software have released their games in public domain, but with developers who didn't is still illegal to distribute without a written permission by them.

People care for it? No, because they believe everything is alright behind the anonymity of internet, but they do it on their own risk. I'm not a saint either, I've done my share of wrong things and due to my young age, I believe I'll still do wrong things during my lifetime, but I fully understand why Missagh or Benoit have disallowed posting the links here and why its not 'Perfectly Legal' to quote your words, and even if they didn't cared the host ToS probably forbids it.
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Postby Abominae » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:59 pm

Truth is, nobody really cares if you use pirated software to make your games. They just want to make sure nobody's going around selling the stuff. True, you'll get people who don't even want you doing private stuff like that with the software (and you know who I'm talking about... at least, I hope you do, cause I already forgot his/her name) but stuff like ROMS and things like that... they're not gonna waste time and money on you for having and using them unless you're making money off of it. Not only that, but people who do use pirated stuff often talk quite a bit about their programs/ROMS/etc. and get people interested in those things again, which is why we're having this re-release revolution on these newer consoles (Wii's Virtual Console, anyone?). They were all idea's created by people who not only WANTED to go back to those days... but found a way that they actually COULD. Think about that.

Now, for what I do, I have to have the games I am working with. Not much of an issue, but I like to keep my work legit. Even if I do use a pirated Photoshop copy.


I wouldn't worry too much so long as you don't make a website that says "COME GET YOUR ILLEGAL SOFTWARE HERE!" These bigger companies know that no matter what they do, people will get around the laws or break them outright. But, as I said before... as long as they're not making money off of it. And, case in point, the one that started the whole "COPYRIGHT" era.

Metallica VS. Napster

That's right. You know it and I know it. It really broke Metallica's hold on being kings of Heavy Metal. They don't sell out concerts consistently like they used to. And it's all very likely due to this.

So, here's what you know. Metallica, represented by a balding Lars Ulrich, sued Napster for making a site that allowed for the distribution of pirated copies of their registered music. Metallica also attempted to sue users who had been Downloading their music (i know, I was one of those who got a cease and decist order)

What you probably don't know is that Metallica was NOT sueing over the sharing of their music, they sued Napster because Napster was making money with their website! As any true Metallica fan can tell you, Metallica has been all for sharing music since they started out (it's how they got to play in arena's without being on MTV!). Even today, you can go to a Met concert and they'll let you hook up to the sound system to record the concert yourself! They make good quality copies of the concert available to fans for about $5 after the show is over.

Metallica protects their own and that includes their fans. Do you honestly think that they'd be able to do the kind of shows they do if they couldn't afford it?

Look at Iced Earth. Mattew Barlow quit IE back in '04 "because of what happend on 9-11". Truth is, he quit because being the singer for IE didn't help him earn enough money to support his wife and kids. He has since joined the police force and has made a very complicated return to IE (Much to my dismay, only because it means the departure of the legendary Ripper Owens. I'll f*** you up someday for that, Jon Schaeffer!)

It's all about money. If you're not making any of it doing what you're doing (and as long as no one you work with or share with is making any money) you're all clear. True, it's still illegal, but it's illegal like being in Texas and not tipping your hat to a lady. Nobody cares!
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Postby Seizaku » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:07 pm

Abominae wrote:[color=red]It's all about money. If you're not making any of it doing what you're doing (and as long as no one you work with or share with is making any money) you're all clear. True, it's still illegal, but it's illegal like being in Texas and not tipping your hat to a lady. Nobody cares!

Truth, however, allowing the distribution of copyrighted material is something that could get PSCave in trouble with company that hosts it for doing something that while it's generally overlooked but its still illegal, and the host could be forced to shut down the site for it.

Ridiculous? Yeah, but it can happen, the law and when you signed a contract you agreed with that and with the terms of service, that are based on the law. It's not perfectly legal, as Khyron said.
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Postby Abominae » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:14 pm

Yeah... I knew I was forgetting to mention something. That part remains true. You should probably stick to only sharing this sort of thing thru e-mail and discussing it thru e-mail/IM service/ or in-game (ex - PSO) That way nobody rats you out.
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Postby Lord Khyron » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:51 am

Mm.. if PScave hasn't been ATTACKED for having a COPY of the PS COLLECTION GBA rom...

Oh what, GBA roms are legal to have now? Having a Illegal Rom is better than a link to a OLD piece of software?

Wow.. double standards!

Then it won't be attacked for fighter maker 95.
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Postby BenoitRen » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:30 am

Yeah, it's kind of hypocritical when PS Cave is hosting ROMs and ISOs themselves. Still, I'd rather play it safe and not have links to pirated content.
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Postby Lord Khyron » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:50 pm

So having an illegal rom is playing it safe?

whereas having a translated program is not? A program translated from japanese to english?

Wow.. What double standards.
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Postby BenoitRen » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:26 pm

So having an illegal rom is playing it safe?

No. For fuck's sake, I just said it was hypocritical as far as the site is concerned.

It's Missagh's decision to host the ROMs. I don't know why. But personally I will play it safe and discourage linking to pirated property on the message board.

By the way, mikepjr, I sent you a PM, not an IM.
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Postby Lord Khyron » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:51 pm

Haha.. Well now... we'd better purge the links to other illegal things then.

That'll never happen.
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Postby Abominae » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:44 pm

Technically, Roms are legal in two different senses.

1st - You own a hardcopy of the original game. For example, since I own a copy of Phantasy Star Collection for GBA (it's in my GBA SP right now), legally, I can own and use a ROM of PSC.

2nd - You must create the ROM yourself. You have to do the translating and programming all on your own. Thus, the completed ROM is your own work and completely legal.

The third way should be obvious and pointless to everyone arguing here.

3rd - You download the ROM and after 24 hours you delete it from your harddrive along with whatever saves, savestates, etc. you made while using it.

Now, what else can we pick a senseless fight over?
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Postby BenoitRen » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:04 pm

That third way is an excuse ROM sites made up back in the day to cover their behinds. It's not true at all.
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Postby Abominae » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:11 pm

Haha, I suspected as much. Since I never heard anything to the contrary, I assumed it might as well be true. However, I am certain of the first two and have looked those up personally.
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Postby mikepjr » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:49 pm

I have to say something else... i swore i would not.. but.
The roms do need removed cause they are available legaly.
Soon im sure every classic Phantasy Star game will be on the Wii virtual console.
They are also available on game tap.
And a lot of them are already available on the Sega Genesis collection.

So really since they are available in some form or manner they really should not be up for DL on any site..

By the way, if anyone wants RM95, IM me and ill point you in the right direction.
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