Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

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How should the main characters be named in Generation:2 ?

Poll ended at Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:51 am

Use the full Japanese names
28
38%
Use the English Sega Genesis names
40
55%
It doesn't matter
5
7%
 
Total votes : 73

Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Kyence » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:51 am

I figured it was time I made a thread concerning this project. Tryphon is doing amazing work in making font modifying tools to make this a reality. He is working on the variable width, and changing the font coding to one byte per character instead of two, giving more room for non-Japanese alphabets that will minimize pointer adjustments. I've been working on the in-game graphics thanks to CUE's terrific graphics tools and cataloging all of the pointers and text in the SLPM file into a spreadsheet; Tryphon and I will be using these and documenting our changes. After seeing so much interest in G1, and given the bigger size of G2, I think this will be easier for people to see everything without having to dig into the code to find everything.

We are still in the early stages of this translation/localization. That means we would like feedback and ideas from all of you as we go forward.

That being said, the poll I have with this thread is to establish a direction in the translation of names. I was thinking in this game to use the original Japanese names for the characters and the towns (some towns' names are actually longer, for example, Arima is actually Arimahya, Oputa is Oputano, etc.) For the basic techniques, use PSO spellings for the known ones, and then use the best Japanese romanization.

I have also been having some fun looking at item names. Remember Shune Boots? Well, their full name is Shunera boots. Shunera is the full name of the Ner technique for speed, and these boots give a speed boost. Garda Boots are actually Guard Boots. There are some that I would like some help on:

    1. "Hirza Boots": (Ha-i-ru-za-mu) ; on this site it is listed as Hailsome, which is a scottish term meaning 'healthy.' I have also seen that the German Heilsam (changed: thanks, skymandr, for the correct German spelling ) means the same thing. There are more examples of things looking more like German in the katakana form (it is used for any foreign word, after all). Which spelling should I use?

    2. "Nish": (Hah-nisshu) ; on this site it is listed as Harnish, which has no meaning in English. However, the German word "Harnisch" is equivalent to Armor or Harness. Which is better, Harnisch, Harnish, or Harness?

    3. "Fiblira": (Fu-i-bu-ri-ra) ; this has always ranked up with Nish as a WTF item name for me. I am thinking it is actually a composite term of some sort. A fibula is a type of brooch used in ancient times. Reversing the -la and -ra, which are indistinguishable in Japanese, gives fibrilla, which is a term for a bunch of fibrils, or tiny fibers. I have seen this term used in some textiles, but is mainly a biological term; cellulose in plants and muscle fibers in animals can use it. I don't know if I should just keep PS3's precedent or what...but the idea of a woman's armor that resembles muscle fibers that form around the body sounds pretty sci-fi and cool.

    EDIT: I found the descriptions for the "fiblira" items...they are described as dresses made from fibers of the type of material. So, I think they meant fibrilla...however, this is singular for one strand, the plural form (and the likelihood that an article of clothing would be made from a bunch of fibrilla) is actually fibrillae. In the kana they may have been referring to the type of fiber strand; I may keep the singular form and keep the corresponding description in singular (i.e., the plain fibrilla would have an approximate description of "A dress made from a silk fiber." )

    4. "Fiber": (Gu-ra-su) ; the game's kana is referring to Glass, but as this site shows, it is evident that the idea is that it was supposed to be Fiberglass/Glassfibre...it's a fun thing to note that the word got split up and used differently. I don't think they had the space to write it out; one of the G2-only items uses an abbreviation for this purpose. With Tryphon's tools, we can use either Fiberglass or Glassfibre in its entirety...which one would you like to see?

    5. "Kinds" /Kain ; Based on the German-sounding words I've come across, I wonder if this is supposed to be spelled more like "Keinz." I believe there is a character in the Black Butler series with the same kana spelling that is named Keinz.

EDIT2: 6. There is a weapon called a scale that only Kinds and Huey can use. Their animations look like they are using dai-kunai...the item description states that they are rod-like weapons that were originally tools. Suddenly, the image of Kinda and Huey beating the daylights out of Biomonsters with huge metal rulers enters my head...

We are a pretty diverse forum, so I think anybody's ideas about how to proceed with these examples will be helpful. Thanks in advance, everyone!
Last edited by Kyence on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Snorb » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:03 am

Hooray! (Even htough I'm too dumb to get PSGen1's translation working... and a PS2 emulator working...)

On Towns: I say go for the Japanese names, considering you've got the space for 'em. (But the planets are always gonna be Palma, Motavia, and Dezolis to me. =p)

On Names: English names, please =)

The Hirza Boots: I'd say call them Heilzam Boots. (And isn't the speed-boosting Technique called Shu? =p)

That Armor Rudo Can't Fucking Spell Properly: Harness Armor, for sure.

Shields But For Ladies: Ugh... I'm not too sure myself what I'd want to see these as. ...Fuck it. When in doubt, go with the PSIII precedent.

Fiber Armor: Fiberglass. I've never seen it called "glass fiber," myself.

That Southern Guy: Keep him Kain, and keep the ridiculously over the top southern accent! (...great, now I can't imagine Amy with anything but a French accent now.)
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:52 am

Cool that youa re making such progress! I wish now that I hadn't forgotten most of my c-skills, then maybe I could have been of some help...

As for names, I prefer Japanese for both towns an people. And as for items... It seems they did intend a lot of german references (the most glaring, perhaps being "foie = Feuer", the German word for Fire -- no, I'm not advocating renaming it "Feuer"! -- and also Rudger Steiner). I think the most important thing would likely be to try to be consistent. If there are precedents in the original Japanese, I think German thing-names could be cool, but consistensy first: Either Hailsome and Harness OR Heilsam (with an S not a Z!) and Harnisch etc.

Oh, and Fibrilla (two Ls) sounds good to.
Last edited by skymandr on Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Missagh » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:00 pm

Thank you for making a separate thread for Generation 2, it was about time! I look forward to follow the progress. I voted for the original Japanese names. However, is it possible to have both versions? Will each line where the names have been used need to be adjusted or does the code have a variable type of system (which should make it a lot more convenient)...?
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SandyLandale » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:27 pm

I personally vote for Heilsam Boots, Harnisch, Fibrilla, Glassfibre, and Kinds. I believe that the German words would make Phantasy Star generation:2 a more unique experience--I mean, come on, what other games could you say you equipped the Laconian Harnisch on Eusis Landale and the Neifibrilla on Amia Amirski?

As for using Kinds instead of Keinz, this is just a matter of precedence. I know it's strange for me to have said this while at the same time having eschewed Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom's "fibliras," but I take these two things in mind.

1. The spelling "Kinds" has already been established by Japanese sources. As far as I know, unlike "Eusis," which has also been spelled Yushis, Yusis, and Yousis, "Kinds" has been a consistent spelling.

2. Phantasy Star III's translators appeared to have not done their homework, not to mention researching video games wasn't common practice back then, so they likely had no idea what a "fuiburira" is supposed to be.

Those are just my two cents.

Oh, and I almost forgot this! I asked Tryphon already, but Kyence, do you think you'd release another patch for Phantasy Star generation:1 if he manages to input a proportional font into that game? Just a little something that formats the text and expands item and character names.

Thanks again for all your hard work!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby BenoitRen » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:30 pm

I prefer a faithful translation instead of one that apes the existing localisation. Those who prefer the terms used in the localisation can play the original Phantasy Star II instead. :P
Kyence wrote:"Kinds" /Kain ; Based on the German-sounding words I've come across, I wonder if this is supposed to be spelled more like "Keinz." I believe there is a character in the Black Butler series with the same kana spelling that is named Keinz.

The translator of Kinds's Adventure was pretty adamant about Kinds being the correct romanisation.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:50 am

BenoitRen wrote:I prefer a faithful translation instead of one that apes the existing localisation. Those who prefer the terms used in the localisation can play the original Phantasy Star II instead.


Seconded! ;)
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Tryphon » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:01 am

Just for keeping you informed about what I'm doing :

- DUMPING THE DIALOGS : algoring permits to extract almost all dialogs from game and edit them, except those in the program code itself. I'm currently adding the extraction / edition of these

- 1 BYTE ENCODING : texts were coded using 2 bytes per character, I modified the code to use only 1. It is sufficient for western languages, and permits to store twice as much text.

- VARIABLE WIDTH FONT : I modified some routines in the game code to be able to use a VWF. It seems to work, but needs more testing. I didn't check the battles either.

- FONT EDITING : I started to write a tool for editing the font easily. It's at the end of my to-do list though.


I am in contact with a French guy who is interested in translating the game in French too ; anyway, all those tools will be made public as soon as they are finished (I intend to post them here and on Romhacking website, I hope it isn't a problem).

Here is a screenshot of what the game looks like for now (I know : the font is awful, but it's a just a test for seeing spacing issues) :

gsdx_20121021173320.gif
gsdx_20121021173320.gif (127.03 KiB) Viewed 24544 times


As you can see, spacings are correct (except for the f, but it's due to the font), equipment is right aligned, what bothers me now is that the text in description window (bottom right) is automatically cut after 32 characters.

Don't be afraid of the nonsense in texts, I've juste Google-translated the japanese texts (and cut it) for testing purposes.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SteveO » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:03 pm

If you'd like some help with translating stuff, I'd be willing to help. I can read katakana and hiragana just fine, but I don't know a lot of kanji, and I'm not fluent.

Also, I don't know if anyone bothered looking it up already, but Emel is supposed to be Ärmel, which is German for "sleeve."

Harnisch is just German for "armor."
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:28 pm

SteveO wrote:Also, I don't know if anyone bothered looking it up already, but Emel is supposed to be Ärmel, which is German for "sleeve."


I'd missed that one completely. Interesting!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Kyence » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:39 am

Thanks, Tryphon! I have to send you that translated item list....it's been a heckuva week.

And all I have to say about Emels being found out as Ärmel is...HUZZAH! I've been wondering that for years! It makes sense, since there are Green Sleeve and Truth Sleeve...why they weren't consistent, I'll never know! I'll need to add that letter to the font. Thank you for confirming Harnisch too, SteveO.

When all is said and done, this may be the most accurate inventory translation ever released for Phantasy Star 2!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:28 pm

I really like the idea that there will be items in several languages in the game. It breaks up the mono-culture feel almost always found in games -- it makes abundant sense (to me, atleast) that there should be more than one Language in Algo even under Motherbrain.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby BenoitRen » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:24 pm

What, the people on Dezo don't count? :)
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SteveO » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Kyence wrote:It makes sense, since there are Green Sleeve and Truth Sleeve...why they weren't consistent, I'll never know!


PSIII is actually the only game in the series I have any experience with, so I could be mistaken, but don't they like to toss in alternate terms for the same armor type in several cases? PSIII has the Force Emel and Royal Emel, which were Seii no Sode (Sincerity / Truth Sleeve) and Green Sleeve in Japan, so that's three terms for a single armor type: Emel / Ärmel (エーメル), Sleeve (スリーブ), and Sode (そで or 袖).

It's hard to say why they would choose one term over the other, though. You'd think it would be due to space constraints, but that doesn't always seem to be the case. I think Ceramic Guard (in the line of Protector-type armor) IS due to space issues, since Ceramic Protector would be ten spaces (セラミックプロテクタ) as opposed to eight for Ceramic Guard (セラミックガード), which is just under the apparent nine-space limit.

Leather Shield takes up seven spaces in katakana, and five in hiragana, but there are longer item names out there, regardless.
レザーシールド (Rezaa Shiirudo)
かわのたて (Kawa no Tate)

The only shield in PSIII that uses katakana is the Ceramic Shield, while all the others are in hiragana. Maybe it's because Ceramic would be harder to identify in hiragana? I dunno. In any case, I started playing PSIII in Japanese a few days ago, and I've suddenly become very disappointed in how it was handled in the US. Spell names (aside from offensive magic) were changed when most of them were already in English, Mieu's recruitment scene was VASTLY different, many item names have been changed around to make them seem like they're part of a set when they're not, and...I'm sure I'll find more stuff as I go on.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby BenoitRen » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:31 am

Yeah, many things were changed for the North American release. Some changes we knew for a long time, like Mieu, others we only discovered recently, like the different Technique names.

Rebecca Capowski translated Kein's quest and Ayn's quest. We're still waiting for the translation of Lain's quest, though bits of it were revealed when someone dumped the Japanese script. Suffice to say that it was very interesting.
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