Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

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How should the main characters be named in Generation:2 ?

Poll ended at Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:51 am

Use the full Japanese names
28
38%
Use the English Sega Genesis names
40
55%
It doesn't matter
5
7%
 
Total votes : 73

Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Blaw- » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:54 am

Which name for "アバンチーノ" [ABANCHIINO] ? (The musician). Avanchino ?

Which name for "ヒラム" [HIRAMU] ? (The Maruera's Chewing-Gum creator). Hilam/Hiram ?

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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Tryphon » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:20 pm

I can almost hear something like "Avanti" in "Abanchino", and I think the misuc spell is named "Musica", so I really think that all this music stuff refers to Italia and that the musician's name should express it. No precise idea though.

For the gum-maker, no idea at all.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:29 pm

Tryphon wrote:I can almost hear something like "Avanti" in "Abanchino", and I think the misuc spell is named "Musica", so I really think that all this music stuff refers to Italia and that the musician's name should express it. No precise idea though.
For the gum-maker, no idea at all.


There is an Italian restaurant in Chiba (or Tokyo anyway) called "Trattoria Avantino" ( http://avantino.jp/ ) so I would go for that (though AvEntino seems to be a more common Italian familyname). As for Hiramu, I would go for Hiram, if for no other reason than that being what the Wikipedia method of translation suggests... ( http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ヒラム )
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Blaw- » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:22 am

Why not, but "Avantino" in the name of the restaurant is written "アヴァンティーノ" (AVANTIINO) and not "アバンチーノ" (A(B-V)ANCHIINO). But yeah, there's pretty much
no results for "Avanchino" on Google, so I would say "Avantino" or "Aventino".

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventino (english version : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventine_Hill)

At the contrary, "Avantino" don't give any precise results to be the name of something so I think I would personally choose "Aventino".

For "ヒラム", yeah, lots of results (4780 results) on Google with "Hiram" and only a few (50 results) with "Hilam" so it's pretty easy to decide between both.
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アバンチーノ and ヒラム

Postby Paul Jensen » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:08 am

For アバンチーノ
I agree with what others are saying about this. It could be either Avantino or Aventino, but it looks like Aventino is more common.

For ヒラム
It looks like ヒラム is the way that the biblical figure (King) Hiram is rendered in Japanese, so it's probably the best choice. If you want to go with pronunciation instead, you could go with "Hillam", which is apparently a real name used in English. IMO either name sounds fitting for a research scientist.

HTH
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Paul Jensen » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:17 am

Sorry for posting two messages in a row.

Kyence wrote:Here is my final take on the techniques. You will see some big changes for some technique names. Ones that were used in PSO have had their spellings preserved. Many others have non-English roots. One of the neater ones I found were "Shunera" is likely "Schneller" - German for faster, which is what this spell does [originally referred to as Ner in the game.] The boots bearing the technique's name have also been corrected in my translation. "Shu" is likely "Schutz" - German for protection. Shu boosts defense of a single person. The strangest one, and the one I am the most ambivalent about is "Fanbi." I really think it is a phonetic transliteration of Vampir in the German or Serbian/Croatian language. My reasoning is below. If anybody can contribute any changes to the list I have, let me know. Someone was very multilingual on the PS2 team!


Nice finds! I've got some more things to add here. First, here's some info from a Japanese page:

テクニックの由来
情報提供:夢幻紳士さん
ファンタのテクニックはどうやらドイツ語が多いそうです。たとえば・・・
フォイエ    feuer(ドイツ語で炎。英語のfireに相当。)
バータ     water(英語の水のドイツ語読み。ちなみにWはV音で読むことが多い。)
グランツ    glanz(ドイツ語で閃光。英語のglareに相当。)
シューツ    schootz(ドイツ語で守りの意味。)
デバンド    die wand(ドイツ語の壁(英語のwall)に冠詞dieをつけたもの。)
シュネラ    schnellar(ドイツ語で速いという意味。)
ヒーナス    heinus(ドイツ語で外という意味。)
って所です。あと、筆者の調べだと
グラブト    gravitation(英語で重力、引力の意)
ザン      斬(・・・だと思う)
メギド     「神の火」という意味らしい(宗教用語?)
です。他にご存じの方が今したら御一報を。


A lot of that seems to match up with what you've proposed, but I guess there are some differences.

メディカルトリート Medical Treat


I'd change this to just "Treatment". "Medical Treat" sounds like Engrish to me.

デバンド Deband (PSO)


See above. It looks like this is "die Wand" in German, or "(the) Wall" in English.

ドランク Drunk (Decreases monster accuracy; being drunk can certainly do that!)
シーザス Seizures (prevents special biomonster attacks)


Might I suggest "Intoxicate" and "Seize" for these?

グランツ Grants (PSO)


See above. Looks like this means "flash" in German.

ゾンデ Zonde (PSO)


The word "zonde" apparently means "sin" in dutch. This is a lightning attack, right? My guess is that "wrath" (as in, the "wrath of God") would be better, but since you're keeping the original Germanic names, I guess you could keep the name "Zonde" the same in any case.

ザン Zan


See above. I guess you could translate this as "slash" or "slice".

バータ Barta (PSO)


I think this might supposed to be "Wasser" in German, or "water" in English. It's a water attack, at any rate.

フォイエ Foie (PSO)


I think you might have mentioned this before, but shouldn't this be "feuer", as in "fire"?

メギド Megid (PSO)


Someone else (possibly even you) might have also noticed this, but I think this is supposed to be "Megiddo", and maybe even "Armageddon". I checked up on the name Megiddo, and it looks like it refers to Israel's Tel Megiddo. The Bible mentions an "apocalyptic military amassment" at Mount Megiddo. In Hebrew, "Mount Megiddo" is "Har Megiddo", which is where we get the phrase "Armageddon".

It's funny -- I used to think Megido was just a bad transliteration, but I guess it was actually closer to the real name.

Also, I think it might be good to use some sort of CamelCase for the tech names that have prefixes. For example, you could have "Resta", "GiResta", "NaResta", "SaResta", "GiSaResta", and "NaSaResta"

HTH
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Tryphon » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:10 am

Great find !!! Thanks !
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Blaw- » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:09 am

Yeah, for Megiddo, Tryphon had already noticed it.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:47 am

Their spelling isn't very good, but the research of the Japanese fans is very solid! Schutz and Schneller have already been worked out by Kyence, but there is some fascinating new stuff as well!

Hinaus for Hinas seems very plausible (they've spelled it Heinus, but it must be Hinaus that they were aiming for). It means "out" or "outside". I wonder if Ryuka is also German? (EDIT: I think it is Rückkehr; see below!)

I am not as convinced by Die Wand for "Debando" but it's interesting, and correct.

As for Zonde and Zan, I'm not sure. Zahn means tooth in German... It may also be worth looking at words beginning with S, since the German and Japanese Z are not pronounced at all the same. Sondern, for instance, can mean "tear apart", though it doesn't really fit any better than Zahn for Zan (sonder- as a prefix can also mean strange). (Skies ripped apart by a flash of lightning, though that may be stretching it pretty thin.)

EDIT:
I started thinking about Ryuka... If Hinas is Hinaus, meaning out, then Ryuka could be something to to with rück, which means "return", "again" or "back", as in for instance zurück and Rückfahrt, both meaning return (slightly different contexts + the latter is a noun). There are many similar words, with slightly different nuances in meaning, and looking for words of the right meaning beginning with Rück-, I actually think I may have struck gold:
Rückkehr means return!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Kyence » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:06 pm

Those are some great finds! I am updating my tech list as we speak. The Hinaus and Rückkehr ones make me very happy.

I am thinking of sticking with Wasser for the water one, to keep the basic elements of fire, water, etc. in German. I already made the Glanz change. I think Paul has a good format idea for the prefixes. His suggestions are good if we try to standardize techs in English. I always knew of Megiddo, but for some silly reason I didn't translate as such :oops:

EDIT: Zünder means a fuse, detonator. Thunder is Donner. Which do I use?
When I searched for Zorn, pronouced similar to Zan, it means anger, wrath, rage in German. Would that be good for a wind slicing attack?

I could translate Shinparo (it is JPN Shinpai as far as I know) to Sorge, German for worry/Anxiety, if we want to standardize everything into German. If I did this, I'd change Procedon to Prozedur, the German equivalent. Drunk would become Trunken, Gravito becomes Graviton, Falser becomes Falscher,Seizures becomes Anfall. I also found out that "Alter" in German sounds like "Eijia" and means old age,age, seniority. The technique ages machines, so I think I'll use it instead of Ager.

Devant is French for "in front;" Deband casts a front barrier. However, I'm beginning to think die Wand is correct; I
think they used the "die" article because Wand/Wall is a physical object, whereas everything else is typically either a verb of some sort or some intangible force or element (like fire,etc.). Or maybe they thought Japanese players would confuse it with a magic "wand" so they said "add the 'die' and...we're done." If I used the German I'd probably call it Die Wand or Die-Wand or something.

I think a translation note should be released with the game translation; I'm also tempted to shorten the spell descriptions
and throw in "German for ..." but that wouldn't be an accurate translation, hehe :D

I changed Jellen to Gellan, a type of gum that's been a food additive among other things and has been around since the '70s. I'm thinking if you were stuck together by something gummy it would lower your offensive power, which is the goal of this tech. I don't know if there is a better translation for it. I also have no clue as to what Zalure could be translated into...
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Blaw- » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:41 am

I'm interested to see your whole techniques lists once they'll be finalized :)
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby LegoMuskCat » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:24 am

Ogod. Please don't use Glanz. D: It sounds awful and I'll always think of "Glands", haha.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Tryphon » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:11 pm

We had a discussion with Blaw- about how 'Deband' sounds like for a French :D
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:54 pm

Yeah, Debando is a problem... doesn't really sound like anything to me. Die Wand should (I think) be romanised "di bando" or even "di banto", rather than "debando", but I guess that may be the best guess so far.

As for jellen, zalure and zonde, I think, since these are of PSO origin, they may not be of German origin at all, so looking for that may be hunting a red herring. As I've said before, regarding Falser and Ager and the other English techs, I don't think there is a problem in having several languages in the tech names. I think it adds to the illusion of a diverse world, rather than detract from it (especially since they are mostly in one category), and from that perspective I think it would probably be better to use Zonde and Jellen as they are, rather than try to force them into a German mould.

But yeah. Deband... Problematic.

EDIT: Debando could also be romanised as Devando. My French is extremely rusty (it was never polished to begin with...), but "devant" means "in front of". I guess a defensive could be said to be "in front of you"? A better match still may be "défendre" (defend), where the second "e" is pronounced close to the Japanese "a".

This last may seem a far stretch, but the Japanese F is very soft, certainly softer than the French, and the Japanese B/V-sound is also softer than the corresponding English (and French?) version(s). Therefore, I think that debando = devando = défendre is not as bad a match.
Last edited by skymandr on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:48 pm

Short addendum on Japanese pronunciation, and how it is rendered in English: Why write F using B..?

Well, Japanese sounds don't always correspond directly to Western/English sounds. Writing "F" is a bit complicated in Japanese: FA requires a subset character (FU + subset A). This is tru for any syllable starting with F (exepct FU which is just FU).

The F-sound is actually a special case of the Japanese H. Logically, the FU-syllable should be HU, but it is in most dialects pronounced more closely to a soft F and therefore mostly written as such. The HA syllable, on the contrary, is a harder H-sound and distinctly uvular (at the back of the mouth) and is therefore actually very far from FA. Furthermore, in Japanese, H and B (and P) are closely related: the B (and P) syllables are "umlauts" of the H-syllables. Therefore BA (B, like F, being pronounced "with the lips") is probably the closest one-katakana syllable to FA, and with Japanese F being soft, BA may in some cases actually come closer. (There is unfortunately not one right answer on how to transcribe sounds between the languages.)

It should also be noted that the V-sound (and therefore the German W) is often (though not exclusively) approximated with a Japanese B-syllable, which is the logic being "die Wand".

(Sorry for the double post...)
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