Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

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How should the main characters be named in Generation:2 ?

Poll ended at Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:51 am

Use the full Japanese names
28
38%
Use the English Sega Genesis names
40
55%
It doesn't matter
5
7%
 
Total votes : 73

Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Kyence » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:30 pm

If anyone wanted to update the GEN1 translation with the hack, that's fine. Once I finish PSG2, I may go back, but honestly I'm not sure if I'll have the time I did before right now; I'll let everyone know, of course. Due to the hack, it will not take the amount of time it did me, since nothing has to be encoded manually byte by byte anymore. It would be nice to flesh out the text, too, without those darn limitations.

PSGEN2 in English will be done by the end of 2013, and likely a lot sooner than that.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby heis3780 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:47 pm

Thank you for the straight answer! I'm looking forward to it!
And as the Japanese would say: がんばれ !!!!!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SandyLandale » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:05 pm

Blaw- wrote:Here's some screens Tryphon shown to us (Kyence and me) a while ago about the PSGEN1 hack (it was, of course, not the final version).

Gorgeous! It's not too far along, I take it, yet it still looks so professional and magnificent, even with the spillovers. I approve! Thank you so much for sharing, Blaw-. Good luck with the French translation!

Kyence wrote:If anyone wanted to update the GEN1 translation with the hack, that's fine. Once I finish PSG2, I may go back, but honestly I'm not sure if I'll have the time I did before right now; I'll let everyone know, of course. Due to the hack, it will not take the amount of time it did me, since nothing has to be encoded manually byte by byte anymore. It would be nice to flesh out the text, too, without those darn limitations.

I think simply working on making an update that utilizes a proportional font, expands the equipment / item / spell / character names, and removes the space-saving workarounds would be good for now. No need to go in and retranslate or anything.

Kyence wrote:PSGEN2 in English will be done by the end of 2013, and likely a lot sooner than that.

Awesome! Er, a suggestion on that date, though? It'd be good to have some margin for error; a better date may be mid-2014. That way, everyone will be surprised it comes early, and if you end up getting swamped by life, you can release it by the projected date. Oh! This is, of course, assuming you're not already doing that. ;)

It's your project, however, and please feel free to do whatever you like regarding it.

Thank you, Tryphon, Kyence, and Blaw-, for all your hard work on these two wonderful, underrated gems!
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Zio51 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:24 pm

SandyLandale wrote:I think simply working on making an update that utilizes a proportional font, expands the equipment / item / spell / character names, and removes the space-saving workarounds would be good for now. No need to go in and retranslate or anything.


I agree with SandyLandale regarding that point. Even though I have not actually played the game in Japanese and I am certainly not good enough anyway to pick small translation inconsistencies if there were any.
Nonetheless, I have played the fully patched game in English and in spite of it not being my native language I had no problem to go through the game without being blocked.
That's just to say that the English script as far as I have experienced it myself is already good as is and unable anyone to go through just fine with the game.

Anyway those screens from Tryphon looks great though I always personally have mixed feeling with the full/short names.
- Full names looks great, you can see the complete name of your favourite equipment ect...
- At the same times the shortened name brings that nostalgic feeling of the old rpgs that had text-size limitations.

But I love the game regardless

SandyLandale wrote:Awesome! Er, a suggestion on that date, though? It'd be good to have some margin for error; a better date may be mid-2014. That way, everyone will be surprised it comes early, and if you end up getting swamped by life, you can release it by the projected date. Oh! This is, of course, assuming you're not already doing that.
[

It's true fan can be impatient at times when what appear firm dates have been put down. But margin or not, I am pretty sure people on here are aware that Kyence, Tryphon, Blaw are doing this out of goodwill and because they are fans themselves. So I think people intrinsically know that any release date is up for change.

Everyone here knows that without them, most of us probably would not ever be able to play those in a language we can understand well.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby newsblade » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:18 pm

Regarding to techniques names I think "DieWand" (TheWall) might be right, because its magical counterpart used in PS1 and PS4 was also named "Waller". Still not sure about "サークラ" being Sacra" and "ガージ" being Gadge".

The following are just random thoughts that shouldn’t be considered too seriously:
- why not using Shifter instead of Shifta;
- リバーサー Rebirther Instead of "reverser". (Its magical counterpart リバーサ was called Rebirth);
- ボルト Bolt instead of "Volt" (the unit used to measure created by some guy);
- グラブト Gravuto instead of Gravito;
- How about シーザス (shiizasu) being Scissors since this cuts all techniques and special attacks?
- バータ (baata) instead of wata(water) or wasser could it be bather since it baths the opponent when cast? In any case the official romanization for バータ is wata (just like the official romanization for feuer is "foie").


I also don't think English and German are the only languages used to name techniques. The book The World of Phantasy Star stated that our party members came from Japanese, Irish, German, Argentinian, Korean and Russian origins. So, definitely we should focus on German, Spanish, English, Japanese, Korean and Russian languages, because they were taken into account for Phantasy Star II.

What I might say may be completely wrong (I'm only writing here to make some contributions, but, again, it shouldn’t be considered too seriously). I think there might be some techniques that borrowed their names from castelaño (Spanish words):
- ムシカ (mushika) ........ Música (which means Music)
- プロセダン (purosedan) .... Procedan (which means Proceed)
- フォルサ (forusa) ...... Força (which means Force/Strength)
- リミテ (rimite) .... Limite (which means Limit) ~ although it could also be English
- リミタ (rimita) ..... Limita (which means Limiter) ~ although it could also be English

Well, in any case, thank-you for your hard work on bringing us what SOA couldn't do for us.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Zio51 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:53 am

newsblade wrote:Regarding to techniques names I think "DieWand" (TheWall) might be right, because its magical counterpart used in PS1 and PS4 was also named "Waller". Still not sure about "サークラ" being Sacra" and "ガージ" being Gadge".

- I always thought that DieWand sounded right but this is not a single word but a noun + its pronoun therefore it is arguable whether it fits the format of other techniques name in the game.
- I think the "Gadge" one is something more like "Gauge". This seems to fit Kains being a ex-mechanics, gauges being among others mechanic components of sorts.

newsblade wrote:The following are just random thoughts that shouldn’t be considered too seriously:
- why not using Shifter instead of Shifta;
- リバーサー Rebirther Instead of "reverser". (Its magical counterpart リバーサ was called Rebirth);
- ボルト Bolt instead of "Volt" (the unit used to measure created by some guy);
- グラブト Gravuto instead of Gravito;
- How about シーザス (shiizasu) being Scissors since this cuts all techniques and special attacks?
- バータ (baata) instead of wata(water) or wasser could it be bather since it baths the opponent when cast? In any case the official romanization for バータ is wata (just like the official romanization for feuer is "foie").

- I agree it does make sense about the "Rebirther" if we have "Rebirth" though I think "Reverser" was used in other Phantasy star. Wouldn't the magic/skill effect information in the menu hint as to which is more suited "rebirth" or "reverse".
- I'm quite for that "Bolt" idea. Though, I didn't know that it was an measure unit, it somehow propped up Lightning/Thunder-bolt to my mind. Like the divine judgment comes to finish you in a 1-hit lol
- Gravito ... hum that's a tough one. Doesn't perfectly fit the Katakana perfectly but I fits magic animation and effect in the game (the idea of a Gravity attack). I was personally thinking about something linked to the german term "Kraft" which means force/strenght as in Schwerkraft for gravity ; again it does not fit as well as Gravito overall.
- That "Scissors" one seems a good fit with the technique effect but I feel personally it doesn't fit overall with the rest. Most skills magic do not seem based on physical objects but more like verb (ager, shifta/shifter, etc...) In that sense you'd have thought it'd be something like "cutter" but not "scissors". I was personally thinking of something like "Seizures" though a bit far-fetching for the Katakana reading.
- Finally on the Barta or whichever way it is currently decided to be put down as in the translation. Well Barta is the official romanization in the PSO title if my memory is correct (and in that one they refer to an ice magic somehow). While it seems indeed to derive from "Wasser/Water" : perhaps a german-english hybrid (the "v" sound of the german W in the english word "water"). "Bather" doesn't feel to right to me (personal opinion)
Also though Foi(e) was the official romanization in PSO and I think even PS2 old style, clearly looking at the Katakana it's closer to the german Feuer. I can't quite guess how it came to this romanization of Foi.

newsblade wrote:What I might say may be completely wrong (I'm only writing here to make some contributions, but, again, it shouldn’t be considered too seriously). I think there might be some techniques that borrowed their names from castelaño (Spanish words):
- ムシカ (mushika) ........ Música (which means Music)
- プロセダン (purosedan) .... Procedan (which means Proceed)
- フォルサ (forusa) ...... Força (which means Force/Strength)
- リミテ (rimite) .... Limite (which means Limit) ~ although it could also be English
- リミタ (rimita) ..... Limita (which means Limiter) ~ although it could also be English

I'm forced to like/agree with all those. I think some of those were already retained by Kyence?

Well truthfully, it is difficult to get all names right. Many european languages share some features due to their either latin or germanic make-up in parts. It somehow feels sometimes that the japanese developer have mixed up on some of the pronounciation resulting in some hybrid word.
This would not totally surprise me, especially when you see that the "Katakana"-ization of some english word in Japanese is sometimes so far-fetched that were you not to know the english word it'd probably be impossible to understand what it means.

Kyence and everyone else have probably put a lot more work and thoughts into getting the romanization right for the fan-translation. I can't see than the company/publisher responsible for the distribution in West back in the 80/90's putting an awful amount of time looking through all european language and their dialects etc... to find which was the absolute source for every single Katakana word. Just my thoughts anyway.

newsblade wrote:Well, in any case, thank-you for your hard work on bringing us what SOA couldn't do for us.

I doubt it is "couldn't" but more a "were not allowed to". Not to defend SoA, but they probably do not have a lot of a say in what will be localized outside of Japan. Though, yes possibly they could try to push SoJ to consider it but at the end of the day, SoJ has the last words on those matters (I think that's how it goes at least).
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:02 am

Good finds! I think I agree with most of it.

I still don't like Die Wand because of the "preposition + noun" nature, but also because it doesn't match the sound: "die" should be rendered as "di" not as "de", but that might be a case of katakana limitations (the kana for "di" (ヂ) is pronouced more like "ji" (or "zi"), so the sound "di" it is usually rendered as "de" (デ) + subset "i" (イ)).

Also, Wand is not a protective wall, but a general wall, such as the ones in a house, but that could also be explained away.

Are there any French-speakers who have an opinion on "défendre" for "debando"?
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Zio51 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:37 pm

skymandr wrote:Are there any French-speakers who have an opinion on "défendre" for "debando"?


Hello Sky,

well I was always finding that the デバンド spell was very close to "defend" in english more than the French word (which I considered too).
Still I am having mixed feelings about both ; either possibility seem too plain.
Having both the spell "Defend" and the action "defend" even though one is written with Katakana and the other in Kanji, it just seem recurring.

Now "Défendre" is as well I think further off that "defend" in terms of pronounciation. The "f" and "r" sound are quite pronounced in French words and nothing seem to indicate in the katakana form a shift toward those syllables.
Especially the "r" sound (can't remember how many times an English person has told me about how it is impossible for them to pronounce any words with "r" in it properly).

Though alike for your analysis about DieWand and "di" sound not truly existing in Japanese, it is well possible something similar apply in this case.

We will never know except if their is some Japanese native who's fluent in French but kept their accent that can tell us about how they think it is best represented in katakana.

Anyway that's my opinion about the Défendre possibility, still it seems to be around this sort of idea. I actually looked how to say Defend in many languages and couldn't find one which was as close to the katakana in pronounciation as the English word.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SteveO » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:43 am

Die wand is ディ・ヴァント (Di Vanto) in katakana.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:16 am

Zio51 wrote:Hello Sky,


HI Zio!

Zio51 wrote:Now "Défendre" is as well I think further off that "defend" in terms of pronounciation. The "f" and "r" sound are quite pronounced in French words and nothing seem to indicate in the katakana form a shift toward those syllables.
Especially the "r" sound (can't remember how many times an English person has told me about how it is impossible for them to pronounce any words with "r" in it properly).


Admittedly, my French is extremely rusty, but it is my impression also that the second e in "Défendre" is closer to an Japanese "a"-sound than the corresponding e in "Defend", and that the pronounced character of the "f" in the French also brings it closer to a Japanese "b" than the "f" in "Defend". The Japanese "f" is very soft, and the "b" also generally softer than the English variety, so it is difficult to know which is a better match in different cases. バ could be a hard "fa", a "va" or "ba" depending on target language (and word) for the romanisation.

So, to my ear at least, the French "Défendre" sounds closer to デバンド than the English "Defend" does -- except for the "re" at the end. As for that, there is no really convincing way of writing that sound in Japanese at all -- there is no corresponding 'r' sound in Japanese (Japanese "r": tip of the tongue, close to "l" (and also to a softened "d" to some speakers, I've noted); French "r": more to the back, correct?), so I guess I could believe that a Japanese developer would give up and say "Shigata ga nai! Let's go with Debando!". Or maybe I just want it to be true...

Another possible French word is "devant" (in front of?)...

SteveO wrote:Die wand is ディ・ヴァント (Di Vanto) in katakana.


Yeah, that's right. should be "to" not "do" to follow the German pronunciation better. It could be writtenディ・バント as well, however. Both バ and ヴァ are commonly used for "va", with the second seeming to signify "note! this is a foreign sound -- make an effort!". There is no single set standard for this.

I don't know if the katakana font used in PS2 on the genesis had support for subset characters. The lack of such characters could be why ディ turned into デ and バ was preferred to ヴァ, I guess...
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby SteveO » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:20 pm

skymandr wrote:I don't know if the katakana font used in PS2 on the genesis had support for subset characters. The lack of such characters could be why ディ turned into デ and バ was preferred to ヴァ, I guess...


I just checked, and PSII does have lowercase katakana available, and they're used in-game, but you're not allowed to use some of them when naming your save file. You can use lowercase versions of ya, yu, yo, and tsu, but none of the five vowels' lowercase versions can be used. You can tell the game uses them right off the bat, when "check" appears on-screen as it's reading your save data (チェック).
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby Zio51 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:15 am

skymandr wrote:Another possible French word is "devant" (in front of?)...

About that one, I'm pretty I have seen somewhere before in the thread it being brought up.

- The match up of the syllable in a one by one basis is pretty much perfect.
de . va . n . t = デ.バ.ン.ド.

- The problem is pronounciation in French. The "t" sound in that word is omitted because it is at the end of the word, unlike english where "t" is pronounced at end of words. Exemple vent (wind) / to vent

So in terms of katakana it shoud be デ.バ.ン so that it matches the pronounciation better. Even then it would not be perfect : en - an - ent - ant form single syllables in French with their own pronounciation, "n" not being audible thereof. Contrarily "n" at the end of words in Japanese is usually pronounced.
Saying "devant" would be like saying "ant (the insect)" in English but stopping yourself before pronouncing the "t". Well, I guess I can't quite describe it with words .

So anyway, except if the developper thought: "hell let's pick some words out of the dictionary, and put them into katakana" I doubt "devant" makes a perfect match. Who knows what the developper had in mind.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby skymandr » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:40 am

Thanks for clearing that up! Back to square one, I guess...
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby arromdee » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Okay, this doesn't have anything to do with translating names, but here's a request: could you make it easier to revive Nei in the translation? The way to do it in the original was ridiculous.
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Re: Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

Postby BenoitRen » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:53 pm

arromdee wrote:The way to do it in the original was ridiculous.

That's the point.
Get Xenoblade Chronicles!
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