Dark Force of PSIII...how can it be here, how can it return?

[Zucca]

The Earthmen are not Evil! ^^

We,ve been debating/discussing about this before. I'm just too lazy to dig up the topic.

[skymandr]

The Earthmen are not Evil! ^^

We,ve been debating/discussing about this before. I'm just too lazy to dig up the topic.

Yeah, another Joel Fagin vs. Mike Ripplinger favourite! ^^

[Tanith]

Well, I wasn't around for the whole debate however long ago, but truthfully, Dark Force could be taken out of PSII and it would be just as effective a story. Ma Brain could very easily malfunction on her own, and the Earthmen already being evil :P and apathetic, they wouldn't bother fixing the system.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

The Earthmen are not Evil! ^^

They are in PSII. They're like those crazy Muslims trying to take over the Western world.

[Wing-0]

The Earthmen are not Evil! ^^

They are in PSII. They're like those crazy Muslims trying to take over the Western world.

Ya know... The analogy is more like those crazy Christians trying to take over the Eastern world from a different perspective...

[BenoitRen]

It's not nonsense, it's a logical conclusion.

You must not have had a course in logic, because you're making a classic mistake, which is inserting your interpretation along with the logic presented.

For example, suppose your father told you: "If you do well on your exams, I'll give you extra pocket money.". So if you fail your exams, does that mean you won't get extra pocket money?

No! This is the classic mistake. To the supposition that "if X then Y" you have added "else not Y".

You've added your own assumptions in your argument along with what Phantasy Star IV presents to present PSIII being retconned as a "logical conclusion".

And this is why I like the English translation for a change, because it seems more like DF was created by the evil that the people of Earth had festering in them for so long and that their DF had no prior connection to other star systems. I prefer how the evil of the Earthmen is squarely blamed on their own errant behavior and disregard for their planet and not on some outside force that just happened to come along and turn them evil.

It's not either, it's both. And this is according to the English translation.

[Tanith]

The English translation of PSII takes a more direct approach to the root of evil, simply stating, "even though we knew about the evil inside of us, we didn't suppress it..."

That's it. My interpretation of that is that the Earthmen were creating their own evil, which is evil that we all have the potential to harbor and nurture. Their Dark Force is their own. It didn't come from Algo.

Again, that's my interpretation. You can interpret it any way you want to. I believe mine is completely reasonable and in line with what's contained in the English translation.

Oh, and THE TIME WARP THEORY SUCK DONKEY BALLS.

[BenoitRen]

Yes, that's how I read it as well. It's your previous post that I read differently. My apologies.

[meteor9]

Frankly I still feel that since PS3 was made with the absolute minimum of PS connectivity (plot, gameplay, style, staff members) that not wanting to accept it as canon is perfectly valid. It'd be sort of like if there was a fourth book in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, between Two Towers and Return of the King, but it was written by a completely different person without input from Tolkien and was set ten thousand miles away but still tried to namedrop stuff. It's technically canon, yeah, but it's not foolish or ignorant to want to not acknowledge it.

That's how I am with PS3. It really would've worked better as a gaiden-type thing and not as a forced entry to the main series.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

It's possible that The Profound Darkness can influence civilisations in other galaxies via Dark Force from its dimensional prison. PSIV establishes that Dark Force is an offshoot of The Profound Darkness alone, if you pay attention to what the Gumbious Temple's Bishop and Le Roof says.

Oh, and the Compendium somewhere states that Lassic weakens the seal to hasten the release of PD's astral projection: Dark Force. Not exactly a descendant or offspring or an individual entity.

AW 341

Towards the end of the year AW 341, Lassic learns the secret of the Algo Solar System's genesis. Forming a space time gate, Lassic travels through and comes in contact with a sealed-away life form as a result he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. In the same year a reign of terror begins sweeping across the planet of Palma and slowly creeping onto the soils of the other planets.

Even though I personally don't take the Compendium seriously and rely on the game's script as truly canon, both resources back up my argument on DF being a sole product of the PD alone, and a projection of its will, ego (emotions are a part of the ego), spirit, whatever.

Overworks in the past did discuss plot elements for PSV regarding the relationship between The Great Light and The Profound Darkness - is Light a force for justice, and is Darkness the absolute evil? So, even if Dark Force survives in PSIII, it's likely that the Profound Darkness will be back in the next one, if a sequel ever manifests.

For the time being, PSIV is the final chapter. PSIII wasn't included in the remakes, which supports my retcon argument. That can all change with a sequel, however. The Rocket Knight franchise was revived with a decent sequel after a 16 year haitus, after all. Never say never.

[Tanith]

It really would've worked better as a gaiden-type thing and not as a forced entry to the main series.

I agree, and perhaps some of the blame can be placed on the PSII development crew. Who the hell decided Palma shouldn't just go through some really terrible suffering but should explode like Alderaan? Good god, someone really needed to take Star Wars out of the VCR!

Just think what the rest of the series would be like with Palma still orbiting Algol.

[Wing-0]

Well... If Gaila, Gaira, my underpants or whatever had a comparable mass, a collision with the planet could break the crust, wreak havoc with the mantle and probably mess the core... But well, that's just pot smoking on my part (not literally).

I agree with you on the bad Alderaan rip off...

[BenoitRen]

both resources back up my argument on DF being a sole product of the PD alone

PSII doesn't.

So, even if Dark Force survives in PSIII, it's likely that the Profound Darkness will be back in the next one, if a sequel ever manifests.

That'd defeat the entire purpose of PSIV, so that's extremely unlikely.

PSIII wasn't included in the remakes, which supports my retcon argument.

It doesn't support it at all, if you think of why it wasn't included more than you want to.

[Wing-0]

It's possible that The Profound Darkness can influence civilisations in other galaxies via Dark Force from its dimensional prison. PSIV establishes that Dark Force is an offshoot of The Profound Darkness alone, if you pay attention to what the Gumbious Temple's Bishop and Le Roof says.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested this before. But what if the Dark Force in PSII, or the Profound Darkness actually FELT the Earthmen's "evilness" as they entered the Algol system? It's not stated ANYWHERE that Dark Forces manifest in a single place, nor need to manifest in a planet. Take for example Kuran in PSIV (Roman numerals, how I hate thee...). This is a speculation:

WHAT IF this happened?

As the Earthmen entered the Algol star system, the Dark Big Boobed One felt their EEEEEVIL and said "Huhuhu... Here comes a tribe who feeds me! And look how tasty their EEEEVILLLL is! SON! GO TO THEM AND SEND ME THEIR EEEEEEVIIIIILLL". Then, Dark Force turns towards the PD and says: "Yes, Mommy!" in a high pitched voice and materialized inside a... Box that talks to the Earthmen, inciting them to do bad stuff in Algol.

For the time being, PSIV is the final chapter. PSIII wasn't included in the remakes, which supports my retcon argument. That can all change with a sequel, however. The Rocket Knight franchise was revived with a decent sequel after a 16 year haitus, after all. Never say never.

Konami brought back the Rocket Knight. Sega's a completely different story. When a new Phantasy Star was announced, it was an alternate universe. They repeated the deal with Phantasy Star Universe. Where's Alex Kidd? Ulala? I don't see new Space Harrier games being produced... Where the hell is Streets of Rage? It's not like the fans forgot about that series. Also, when Shinobi for the PS2 was released, it was a different character. None of the old familiar characters returned, except for Joe Musashi, which was a reskin of Hotsuma. Even after that, came Nightshade, with a Kunoichi named Hibana that sported a pretty butt and some familiar colors, but the game was completely hers, even if tied to the game released the year before.

Sega's track record shows that if they bring back an old series, it's either as a compilation of old games or a reboot/reimagination.

The remakes are just remakes. No new entry in the series. For Sega, Phantasy Star is complete and closed.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

PSII doesn't.

It doesn't matter what is implied in PSII.