Stuck?

[etony33]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought of a way for someone to accidentally get stuck in Phantasy Star (and no, I'm not talking about the pitfall in the Laconian Shield cave. A person would have to a) not have the flute and b) have neither Myau nor Noah able to cast Exit due to a lack of MP or death).

Here is the scenario, which an unassuming person easily could do.

After getting Hapsby, but before getting the Landrover or Hovercraft, a person uses the Fly spell or a TRANSER. The last church they visited is in Paseo. The spaceport is closed. They save the game.

[MrStarbird]

Yeah, I believe that would soft-lock the game unintentionally. Many games, even today, have unchecked situations that bypass testing and would create a soft-lock situation. The pit in the Laconian Shield Cave is another example, providing you don't have the Flute or Exit spell and accidentally saved over your previous save.

Phantasy Star II has a famous soft-lock in which if you win the Army Eye battle (by either successfully retreating or by a hacking measure), you cannot move forward. Another one involves using duplicating Teim via the item duplication glitch, going to the north bridge from the west end, and then trying to access the Jet Scooter. Not so well known and not likely you're gonna do it unless you are looking for a way to soft lock. Also, when glitching the game and a character's level, sometimes selecting a technique in battle that has no name will freeze your game.

Phantasy Star III has its famous Escapipe soft-lock at the beginning of the game as well (though when used at the right time you can actually not soft-lock the game. In fact, this is how speedrunners get an extra 250 Meseta before even leaving Landen because they are able to grab the treasures and still leave town because you did talk to Lena). But there is also a soft-lock in that game if you were to use the Escapipe glitch with Adan or Aron after performing a Generation Skip. You end up in Cille with no way out. Even if you perform a Generation Skip on Nial's generation and then choose to marry Laya, you soft-lock the game anyway with no way to advance. A new one discovered a couple days ago was if you empty out a character's inventory with the last item you toss or give being a consumable, if you go to battle and try to use an item, you will be able to, but in doing so the game will reset. Not a soft-lock but still annoying.

I don't recall ever seeing a way to soft-lock Phantasy Star IV. It is pretty solid in its coding.

[myau56]

Interesting topic ! The fact that you could ever be stuck in a game has always been horrible ! In fact, it depends : if you are stuck and don't have the opportunity to have another save slot, sure you're gonna cry about it !
I can't remeber but about the cave with the Laconian Shield : I don't think I've ever been stuck inside ! (cursed be to the lying dezorians ! ) But like everyone else (I think) I've fallen at least one time !
But about the spaceport, I'me sure I've been stuck one time ! What an horrible sensation at this ("great") moment...
But I didn't know at all about the last one in PSIII, about the items : thanks for letting us know, MrStarbird !

[etony33]

Is there a way to exploit any kind of glitch in order to skip the first Zio battle? If so, maybe you could make the game malfunction when you tried to put a sixth person in your party, but that wouldn't happen through normal gameplay.

[MrStarbird]

If there was any way to skip that first Zio battle, it would cut so much time off the speedrun. Right now there isn't a way, but in skipping it you would be skipping the cutscenes and subsequent triggers. This is why finding skips for this game is harder than the other three.

In fact, there really isn't too much in the way of glitches for Phantasy Star IV. It was coded very well. There is an underflow glitch if you have the Shadow Saber equipped to a very low-level Chaz, but it is not viable for anything. Same thing with Phantasy Star, not much in the way of glitches. Phantasy Star III has a small handful that semi-breaks the game, and Phantasy Star II has a LOT of glitches that break the game wide open for exploitation (which seems odd that Phantasy Star III was actually coded BETTER than Phantasy Star II, despite the rough development PS3 had).

[myau56]

Maybe PSIV has less glitches than the others because its a mlore recent game ? But then about the first one it's stranger that there are so few glitches.

[MrStarbird]

It's not so much about when the game was made as to how it was made. Keep in mind that Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 (Sonic '06) is a ton more glitchy than Sonic the Hedgehog (original). Also keep in mind that games are not glitchy until they are discovered. Phantasy Star II was once considered a solid game programming-wise. Today the game is one of the most broken RPGs ever made. All it takes is one discovery to lead to another and then break the game wide open. It could happen to Phantasy Star IV or even the original Phantasy Star.

[myau56]

True that for Sonic the example is a great one.
But for Phantasy Star, some creators were the same from the one to the fourth, so maybe it was easier to make improvements more effective or try to have less glitches or "stucking" situations ?
yes maybe some people will find other glitches in the first or the 4 (or both of them !) and it'll be great !

[MrStarbird]

I just found a soft-lock in Phantasy Star IV.

After you get Wren and the Canceller, if you go to the Planet Select screen (it will give you only the option for Kuran) then if you cancel out and then go back in to the Planet Select screen, it will give you Motavia and NOT Kuran. I tried to recreate this again and it seems to be random, but there is a slight possibility this can keep you from continuing your game.

[myau56]

Ah finally a soft-Lock in Phantasy Star IV ! And I didn't know about it ! I'll try to ...try it ! But I haven't played the fourth one for a very long time ago now so...

[MrStarbird]

There is a 2nd soft-lock that I heard about from another runner. If you mash through text too fast after you pick up the Algo Ring and Rykros Ring, the game won't set the flag that you have collected them. This basically means that even if you have all five rings in your inventory, you won't get to have the 2nd conversation with Le Roof and cannot progress in the game. This is also a rare occurrence, but it is possible.

[lorenzo]

There is a 2nd soft-lock that I heard about from another runner. If you mash through text too fast after you pick up the Algo Ring and Rykros Ring, the game won't set the flag that you have collected them. This basically means that even if you have all five rings in your inventory, you won't get to have the 2nd conversation with Le Roof and cannot progress in the game. This is also a rare occurrence, but it is possible.

You can recover from this. All you need to do is re-enter the room containing the rings. This is also true for some other chest containing key items: when you collect the items, the game checks if you've opened the chest, and if you have, the flag is set. This check happens every frame, that's why it works by just re-entering a room.

In this case after you get the last ring, if you go to the menu in the same frame you open the chest, the flag is not set because the check for events, and other stuff such as object update, palette cycling, etc., are not run when you're in the menu. So wait a few frames before opening the menu and using Hinas and it should be fine.

I just found a soft-lock in Phantasy Star IV.

After you get Wren and the Canceller, if you go to the Planet Select screen (it will give you only the option for Kuran) then if you cancel out and then go back in to the Planet Select screen, it will give you Motavia and NOT Kuran. I tried to recreate this again and it seems to be random, but there is a slight possibility this can keep you from continuing your game.

I couldn't find out anything about this; can you please give more details, like what you do before entering the Planet screen, or in the room where you get Wren, and such?

[myau56]

There is a 2nd soft-lock that I heard about from another runner. If you mash through text too fast after you pick up the Algo Ring and Rykros Ring, the game won't set the flag that you have collected them. This basically means that even if you have all five rings in your inventory, you won't get to have the 2nd conversation with Le Roof and cannot progress in the game. This is also a rare occurrence, but it is possible.

Ah ok ! Thank you both of you for all the precisions about those stuck situations and the means to "escape them" !
The fact that you can counter the second one is a great thing
The first about the canceller seems to be happenning very few times so it's better like that !

[MrStarbird]

There is a 2nd soft-lock that I heard about from another runner. If you mash through text too fast after you pick up the Algo Ring and Rykros Ring, the game won't set the flag that you have collected them. This basically means that even if you have all five rings in your inventory, you won't get to have the 2nd conversation with Le Roof and cannot progress in the game. This is also a rare occurrence, but it is possible.

You can recover from this. All you need to do is re-enter the room containing the rings. This is also true for some other chest containing key items: when you collect the items, the game checks if you've opened the chest, and if you have, the flag is set. This check happens every frame, that's why it works by just re-entering a room.

In this case after you get the last ring, if you go to the menu in the same frame you open the chest, the flag is not set because the check for events, and other stuff such as object update, palette cycling, etc., are not run when you're in the menu. So wait a few frames before opening the menu and using Hinas and it should be fine.

I just found a soft-lock in Phantasy Star IV.

After you get Wren and the Canceller, if you go to the Planet Select screen (it will give you only the option for Kuran) then if you cancel out and then go back in to the Planet Select screen, it will give you Motavia and NOT Kuran. I tried to recreate this again and it seems to be random, but there is a slight possibility this can keep you from continuing your game.

I couldn't find out anything about this; can you please give more details, like what you do before entering the Planet screen, or in the room where you get Wren, and such?

This might have been a similar situation to the above with the Algo Ring issue. I was in a speedrun setting so I mash through text through the Canceller. I went to exit Zelan and it did give me the option of going to Kuran, but I cancelled out beforehand because I forgot to put Wren in front. I went to exit again and it only gave me the option for Motavia. I decided to try it out, flew to Motavia, went back to the spaceship and it gave me Zelan as the only option again. Went back to Zelan, and again, only Motavia was available.

If the game didn't recognize the flag for not having the Canceller, Wren would stop you from entering the spaceship saying that they cannot get to Kuran without it. Again, this is something I discovered a few days ago... but at the same time, I have not been able to recreate it, so I imagine it is a rare occurrence, much in the same way being able to run from bosses in Phantasy Star II.

[lorenzo]

This might have been a similar situation to the above with the Algo Ring issue. I was in a speedrun setting so I mash through text through the Canceller. I went to exit Zelan and it did give me the option of going to Kuran, but I cancelled out beforehand because I forgot to put Wren in front. I went to exit again and it only gave me the option for Motavia. I decided to try it out, flew to Motavia, went back to the spaceship and it gave me Zelan as the only option again. Went back to Zelan, and again, only Motavia was available.

If the game didn't recognize the flag for not having the Canceller, Wren would stop you from entering the spaceship saying that they cannot get to Kuran without it. Again, this is something I discovered a few days ago... but at the same time, I have not been able to recreate it, so I imagine it is a rare occurrence, much in the same way being able to run from bosses in Phantasy Star II.

Did you get Wren first and then the Canceller? Did you use Hinas to teleport or walk your way to the exit? I assume you used Hinas because it's faster, but I'm asking just in case. The situation would be the same as the 5 rings in Rykross, meaning the Canceller flag is not set so you would ALWAYS get Motavia (and it can be fixed by going back to the room you got the Canceller in), but in your case you got Kuran once and then always Motavia afterwards if I understood correctly.

I realize it's a very rare occurrence, but I'm just curious to see if I can dig something out of the game code.