Why Square-Enix, WHY?!

[Danny]

I heard the news a few weeks ago, but it's been only recently that Square-Enix has really annoyed me about this after actually seeing the in game footage of the snes fan game Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes.
YouTube playlist

Damn it, this fan sequel of Chrono Trigger was a hell of a lot better than both Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross which sucked a$$ in comparison to Chrono Trigger. Seriously, I love CT, but hate RD and CC... I was honestly looking forward to playing Crimson Echoes as it was an actual good sequel to Chrono Trigger (well I would have done some things differently, but overall, it was nice). Damn Square-Enix... Now all traces of this game are destroyed...

I still don't get why Square-Enix did this...? The people working on this project put a lot of effort into this game and they always encouraged people to buy CT related products from Square-Enix such as CT for the DS. These sad people must realize that they are nothing without the fans that support them and by doing this, they're only hurting themselves. I personally would have been very honored if a group of people would have made a great sequel to one of my games and advertised my company. Square-Enix should have supported or just left them alone. That would have shown that they care about their fans, which they apparently don't...

Anyways, not to make a big deal of this, I just wanted to show these videos to the CT fans here who might have not known about Crimson Echoes. All we can do now is keep track of the youtube videos and watch. For those interested in reading more about this ceased project, read here: http://www.chronocompendium.com/

This hasen't been the start of a good month... Hopefully it will get better.

Note: I like the fact that the people working on this projected actually listened to their fans and chose to not kill off characters.

[BenoitRen]

I was also aware of this. Square-Enix is a bunch of assholes. These fans were not going to make any money from this.

A 75% complete build of the game got leaked by other people.

I've been watching the video playthrough since the beginning. They did an amazing job, IMO. I'm hooked!

[Wing-0]

It's not just Square Enix... Most Japanese companies cringe and go all legal on your ass when you start doing a project -ANY PROJECT- based on their intelectual properties as they see it as an infringement on their rights.

Some western developers even release the SDK so the players can continue playing with the game in a way they didn't foresee.

There are Quake mods, Half Life 2 mods, Starcraft mods, you name it.

I'd love it if Japanese companies would look at that opportunity and allow gamers to make mods. Hell, there are many games I'd like to make mods of... I even want some private servers, dammit!!!

[BenoitRen]

Actually, the Japanese branches seem to not mind fan games as much. There's a big indie scene in Japan. It's the US branches that crack down on these things.

Except Sega. All branches of Sega seem to be cool with it.

[Wing-0]

Explain to me why the mods are so popular and the US companies don't seem to care...

I know full well about the doujin scene in Japan. I, however haven't seen then utilizing actual roms or game files for their projects. However, in the western scene, it's completely different.

I'll cite the example of Melty Blood. It started out as a sequel of sorts of Tsukihime, a well known eroge (that is erotic game) that featured at the beginning an unpolished fighting game engine that evolved and now is VERY well known as a competitive game. There is the doujinshi manga scene as well, but they don't use any resources other than story for them, and so the companies don't really pay much attention to it, as they're getting free publicity.

The guys doing the CT sequel however, were using the actual rom and modifying it, which is in reality reverse engineering. What many Japanese companies dislike the most.

Developers releasing SDKs are in a way hoping to get that free publicity and lenghtening their games lives'.

[Wing-0]

Regarding Sega... Let's try hacking one of their recent games (as in currently making them money like CT is for Square Enix) and see if they don't go all legal on our asses... I'd be very surprised if they even let us off the hook.

I believe they don't go "Cease and desist" on the guys holding the private PSO servers actually because they consider PSO as a dead game. They have replaced it with PSU and PS0... They ARE bringing a bit of stuff from PSO, but the core game seems to be dead for them. However, let's imagine for a moment they brought PSO, the Ragol planet, Red Ring Rico and everything to PSP and DS... with full online functionality. I'd expect Sega grabbing SCHTHACK by the testicles, wringing them all over and telling them to cease and desist... (I know, ugly mental image...)

[BenoitRen]

Explain to me why the mods are so popular and the US companies don't seem to care...

Because they officially allowed it by releasing SDKs to do it. That's all.

Regarding Sega... Let's try hacking one of their recent games (as in currently making them money like CT is for Square Enix) and see if they don't go all legal on our asses... I'd be very surprised if they even let us off the hook.

Would you consider the Phantasy Star games as still making them money? After all, they are regularly being released in compilations, available on the Virtual Console, and PSII is available stand-alone on Xbox Live.

That being said, there are several hacks of the Phantasy Star games out there, and a full retranslation of the original game. Phantasy Star Cave hosts them if you want to have a look.

I believe they don't go "Cease and desist" on the guys holding the private PSO servers actually because they consider PSO as a dead game.

They have existed long before PSO was dead.

[Wing-0]

Good points there...

On the PSO private servers, I don't really know when they started doing it.. Hell, I didn't even know there private servers were until a little while ago, remember me going all "WHERE!?" when it was mentioned?

About the PS games on newer media, yes, they could be considered like "living games" by my standards... But a new question arises... Does Sega actually know the hacks exist?

Here are the instances I know of the classic PS coming back:

GBA collection
PS2 Generations games
PS2 Complete Collection
Wii release you mentioned
X360 you mentioned
PS3 Genesis Collection (I think there is a X360 version)

So they are a bit recent... What if Sega doesn't know of the existence of the hacks? What if they do and then go legal? Again, I'm speaking about my own ignorance on the matter. However, I'm not about to go and tell them... I like hacks existing...

[Danny]

Actually, the Japanese branches seem to not mind fan games as much. There's a big indie scene in Japan. It's the US branches that crack down on these things.

Except Sega. All branches of Sega seem to be cool with it.

I agree 100% with BenoitRen. Japanese companies are usally lax where as the American ones always seem to hunt down people. This is actually the reason why Square-Enix surprised me by doing this since they're not really known too. Apparently they're starting to following the American example these days which is sad...

About the PS games on newer media, yes, they could be considered like "living games" by my standards... But a new question arises... Does Sega actually know the hacks exist?

They most likely do as PSCave is a very well known and popular site that has been around for many years. The only reason why they're not doing any thing is because they're turning a blind eye to us like most other Japanese video game companies. They could easily send Missagh a C&D letter like Square-Enix did to the Crimson Echoes team but they choose not to.

A 75% complete build of the game got leaked by other people.

Those four leakers of that Alpha version of the game got permanently banned from Chrono Compendium today... Anyways, I heard that version of the game has over 2000 bugs that have been fixed in the 98% version that we're watching on youtube. I don't know if I should get or not, they state that the plot is also slightly different and the game can randomly freeze at times. I hope that they finish that 2% and leak the game on the web anonymusly or better yet, just find a way to convince Square-Enix to allow them to put their fan game up for download. Most of the actual Chrono Trigger staff don't even know about Crimson Echoes, it's the legal team that sent the C&D letter to them. If they could speak with one of those higher ups, then there's a chance that they'll allow them to host it. Luckly I read that the game is not actually destroyed, rather they divided different portions of the game and each member has a different piece.

Edit: Thanks for fixing the youtube link in my first post BenoitRen. I had forgotten to shorten it, link was way too long. Man this game is great! Too bad they got C&D...

[BenoitRen]

This is actually the third time that they shut down a fan project. Another one was Chrono Resurrection, a promising 3D remake of the original game.

[Danny]

Yeah, I remember reading about that one too. I think there were also a few others too such as Prophet's Guile (also made by the Crimson Echoes team). Square-Enix has honestly become heartless since the two companies merged. They were better seperate as Square Soft and Enix in my opinion.

As for Crimson Echoes, man I wish that they had made Schala a playable character. Her magic would have been so awesome like Magus'. Although I think that it would have been a little more on the healing and support side. So I guess it would have been a combo of Marle and Magus' techs. The creators sure captured Chrono Trigger's humor. I kind of miss Frog's Old English though, but it's not a big deal.

[meteor9]

There's just something about CT projects that Square can't stand. Then again, there's something about CT projects that for some reason always involve big 'teams' and publicity and stuff.

I can't really see both of them coexisting.

[Abominae]

It started happening about 3-4 years ago.

Back then, I had about 20 different FF1 hacks and god knows only how many hacks/mods/etc. I saw for other Square titles.

I'm so glad I chose a Sega title for my fan games.

I hope I can program it properly with DirectX.

[BenoitRen]

You should program it using SDL or Allegro instead, so your game will be cross-platform. It'll still use DirectX on Windows.