So which came first...

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So which came first...

Postby LegoMuskCat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:13 am

The chicken, or the egg?

Discuss.
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Re: So which came first...

Postby Tanith » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:28 am

The hen! No, wait... >.>

I say, uh... chicken.
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Postby BenoitRen » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:48 pm

The chicken came first, as that's what its predecessor evolved into before it laid chicken eggs.
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Re: So which came first...

Postby carlsojos » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:45 pm

At the genetic level, the change appears in the offspring, rather than the parent, and it is the competition between the new variant and the others that determines whether the new traits are positive, or not worth keeping. Based on this mechanism of Darwinism, the first chicken was born from it's genetic ancestor, and it was likely born an egg, which then hatched into the first chicken. Conversely, in order for the chicken to come first, the first chicken would have to be born through another method other than an external egg. While this is possible, it is unlikely as the procedure of egglaying is quite common among many species, including most birds, which suggests that the egg really did come first, from the predecessor to the chicken.
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Re: So which came first...

Postby Neo48 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:27 pm

The short answer is the reptile.
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Re: So which came first...

Postby carlsojos » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:04 am

Neo48 wrote:The short answer is the reptile.

I think that's still up for debate. It is suggested that dinosaurs may be related to some birds, but I don't think there's enough evidence to determine the evolutionary relationship between the two.
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Postby Wing-0 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:27 am

What came first? Why, feathered dinosaurs! Then they mutated into something closer and closer to modern hen genetics, which then spawned a cute, white egg with a slimy chicken inside. That chicken grew and turned into a hen which then laid another egg.
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Re: So which came first...

Postby LegoMuskCat » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:50 pm

So, wait. Lemme get this straight: Chickens aren't chickens, they're dinosaurs that evolve into chickens! ...I think?
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Re: So which came first...

Postby carlsojos » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:59 pm

Dreamer wrote:So, wait. Lemme get this straight: Chickens aren't chickens, they're dinosaurs that evolve into chickens! ...I think?

That's something that gets pretty blurry depending on one's definition of species. If you were able to trace the lineage long enough, you would be able to follow the ancestors of chickens all the way back to the point where life was RNA being chaotically executed by chemicals in the atmosphere to perform arbitrary functions such as producing glucose or self replicating. On the other hand, if you were to cross-check this lineage's genomes with the modern chicken, you would eventually hit a point where you would find a creature that doesn't match the genome, yet gave birth to a chicken that does. The big kicker is that this point is actually more like a span of decades to centuries, since multiple chickens would likely have been born, and managed to survive where their ancestors didn't. Of course, using genetics to define a species does have its downsides, since it would mean that polar bears are actually a sub-species of brown bear, but if you were to utilize behavior to further define what a species is, you would be even harder-pressed to determine exactly where the chicken came from, since its immediate ancestors likely maintained a habitat and behaviors similar to a wild chicken.
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