Dark Force of PSIII...how can it be here, how can it return?

[BenoitRen]

PSIII doesn't make sense in the fact that Dark Force was already thwarted by Rolf/Eusis and co back in Algo (specifically Noah, where Mother Brain is situated), so it wouldn't occur until the next one thousand years. How can it suddenly go on a rampage on various spaceships and gets sealed on one of the last surviving ships.

Easy. The Earthmen arrived with their own Dark Force. The one from the cycle is the one that wreaked havoc on the planet Palma itself and boarded the worldships.

Why does it need to do all this needless shit on PSIII when its objective is to destroy Algo, or planetary parts of it?

Because at the end of the day, Dark Force is still an evil being that thrives on negative emotions.

As I said PSIV pretty much retconned PSIII as being the LAST GAME chronologically.

No, it didn't. You keep saying that, but that doesn't make it true. Phantasy Star IV was the last game in the series. A story (or series) doesn't have to be told chronologically.

Essentially Dark Force is The Profound Darkness' avatar since since it assumes physical form AFTER a part of it is free from its dimensional prison - Le Roof's projections shows that its true form is a formless mass of black energy, like what The Profound Darkness is, but in a lesser state.

Dark Force is a physical manifestation of the Profound Darkness' hate. That doesn't make it a part of the Profound Darkness.

Ergo, I don't recall PSIV referring to Dark Force as being many Dark Forces when it establishes Dark Force as a singular entity and a part of The Profound Darkness.

Yet it's pretty apparent that there is more than one Dark Force in Phantasy Star IV. Kuran was taken over by a Dark Force 6 months before the game opens, and the snow storm on Dezolis caused by the Garuberk Tower started 3 months before the game opens.

You don't just say it's the final game unless you retcon past storylines in a series

I don't see how that follows logically.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

Easy. The Earthmen arrived with their own Dark Force. The one from the cycle is the one that wreaked havoc on the planet Palma itself and boarded the worldships.

PSIII doesn't have an official canon ending. That is but mere fan speculation on your part.

Dark Force is a physical manifestation of the Profound Darkness' hate. That doesn't make it a part of the Profound Darkness.
.

Le Roof specifically states Dark Force as being the "most intense part of The Profound Darkness' hate-filled spirit", so that pretty much makes it a part of The Profound Darkness. It's in the script.

Yet it's pretty apparent that there is more than one Dark Force in Phantasy Star IV. Kuran was taken over by a Dark Force 6 months before the game opens, and the snow storm on Dezolis caused by the Garuberk Tower started 3 months before the game opens.

Where in the script does it mention of time periods?

I don't see how that follows logically.

It does when you're wrapping up a series altogether with an entry that is a definitive conclusion.

[BenoitRen]

PSIII doesn't have an official canon ending. That is but mere fan speculation on your part.

No, it isn't. Read the PSII script:

- What's this? I feel the tremendous strength of dark power!
- Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! This is Pandora's box! It contains all that is evil, all that you call the dark force! This is a present from our world to all of you! Take it!

Le Roof specifically states Dark Force as being the "most intense part of The Profound Darkness' hate-filled spirit", so that pretty much makes it a part of The Profound Darkness. It's in the script.

That's one way to read it. But the Japanese script says that what goes through the seal is pure hate, which then takes a physical form.

Where in the script does it mention of time periods?

Before they go to Zelan for the first time, and when talking to Gyuna in Ryuon. To quote you, "it's in the script".

It does when you're wrapping up a series altogether with an entry that is a definitive conclusion.

So the final chapter in a book retcons all chapters that took place in the future? Rubbish.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

PSIII doesn't have an official canon ending. That is but mere fan speculation on your part.

- What's this? I feel the tremendous strength of dark power!
- Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! This is Pandora's box! It contains all that is evil, all that you call the dark force! This is a present from our world to all of you! Take it!

It's irrelevant. Sega hasn't officially announced that one out of four endings is the canonical one.

And the mysterious voice being the people from Earth is but a theory.

Again, fan-made conclusions.

PSIV has more than likely expanded on events in past games to explain Dark Force's true origin.

[BenoitRen]

It's irrelevant. Sega hasn't officially announced that one out of four endings is the canonical one.

I'm not referring to any of PSIII's endings, so I don't understand why you keep talking about it.

And the mysterious voice being the people from Earth is but a theory.

I've had yet to see any doubt that the voice comes from anyone but Earthmen. Their speech at the end of the game reinforces this fact.

PSIV has more than likely retconned events in past games to explain Dark Force's true origin.

Weasel words.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

I'm not referring to any of PSIII's endings, so I don't understand why you keep talking about it.

Because you're using Aron's ending to support your theory that the earthmen brought PSIII Dark Force back to Algol. Time loop for the win.

I've had yet to see any doubt that the voice comes from anyone but Earthmen. Their speech at the end of the game reinforces this fact.

Again, when Sega offically announces that one of the endings is canon, PSIII didn't happen.


And given Sega's history of sweeping the third game under the carpet and remaking PSI, II & IV into a trilogy, it's likely that PSIII story has been retconned by Sega but used elements from that game to blend in with IV's story.

The Profound Darkness character concept wasn't introduced until Sega (or Overworks for that matter) decided to wrap up the series with a final chapter, to tie up loose ends and all that. When III was still in development, they probably had a direction in mind prior to what they decided with IV.

[skymandr]

Because you're using Aron's ending to support your theory that the earthmen brought PSIII Dark Force back to Algol. Time loop for the win.

I see why you think this is what he meant, but actually, if you re-read that paragraph, you will see that he is not claiming that the PSII and PSIII DFs are the same. Ben is addressing two issues (DFs) in the same paragraph, hence the confusion...

I'm not sure I agree that that is an "Easy" sollution, btw, Benoit. If it did not originate in Algol (fair enough) it has to be explained why it is affected by the cycle (or one has to accept PSII as not being a part of the true series, but a Side-story/Gaiden, which doesn't appeal to me, since it's my favourite...). Suggestion: Perhaps a minor crappy vibe was brought along by the Earthdudes that came into resonance with the major bad mojo in Algol, resulting in a manifested DF?

[BenoitRen]

Damn it, PeaGuy, I've said twice now that I'm not basing my argument on any of PSIII's endings. Please stop saying that I am.

Your interpretation of PSIII being left out is your own. There are other reasons possible. Like it being unfinished and being made by a different team, to name some.

As a Dark Force is a being of pure evil not necessarily associated with the Profound Darkness, it's not far-fetched to say that it came with the Earthmen. I don't think it's far-fetched either to think that it allied with the Profound Darkness to cause even more suffering down the road.

Alternatively, you could argue that PSII was retconned to have its Dark Force be from Algol with two Dark Forces spawning in the system thanks to the weakening of the seal.

Anyway, PeaGuy, I doubt anything is going to convince you, because it seems you're dead set on leaving PSIII out of the canon.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

Damn it, PeaGuy, I've said twice now that I'm not basing my argument on any of PSIII's endings. Please stop saying that I am.

Your interpretation of PSIII being left out is your own. There are other reasons possible. Like it being unfinished and being made by a different team, to name some.

LOL, I'm doing my mate's head in.

As a Dark Force is a being of pure evil not necessarily associated with the Profound Darkness, it's not far-fetched to say that it came with the Earthmen. I don't think it's far-fetched either to think that it allied with the Profound Darkness to cause even more suffering down the road.

But the story in PSIV didn't give off that impression. Maybe in PSII Dark Force was a weapon of the Earthmen, or maybe in PSIII it was a product of immortal evil. In PSIV, however, Dark Force came from The Darkness. Only The Darkness could accomplish such a feat of Dark Force recurring.

You lot say that Dark Force wouldn't know about Darkness' demise in PSIII. Why wouldn't it know? It's a part of it. You wouldn't make a stupid claim that I'll be back to mess with you spaceship losers in 1000 years.

Alternatively, you could argue that PSII was retconned to have its Dark Force be from Algol with two Dark Forces spawning in the system thanks to the weakening of the seal.

Too fucking convoluted.

Anyway, PeaGuy, I doubt anything is going to convince you, because it seems you're dead set on leaving PSIII out of the canon.

No it isn't. PSI, II & IV talk about the same story in Algo and are consistent with one another. PSIII isn't, and I gave a valid reason why, which is supported by the fact that PSIII wasn't going to be remade. End of.

[BenoitRen]

But the story in PSIV didn't give off that impression.

Impressions are like fan speculation.

You lot say that Dark Force wouldn't know about Darkness' demise in PSIII. Why wouldn't it know? It's a part of it.

It's not a part of it, as already explained. You could also argue that that specific story element was retconned.

PSI, II & IV talk about the same story in Algo and are consistent with one another.

No, they aren't. There were less than 1000 years between Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star II, and Phantasy Star II says that its Dark Force came from Earth.

PSIII isn't, and I gave a valid reason why

Except that it's only not consistent with a valid reason in your own interpretation, and all other interpretations are cast aside by you as fan speculation. What makes your interpretation not fan speculation?

which is supported by the fact that PSIII wasn't going to be remade.

I already explained why this doesn't support much.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

No, they aren't. There were less than 1000 years between Phantasy Star and Phantasy Star II, and Phantasy Star II says that its Dark Force came from Earth.

No, it didn't. You're clutching at straws here.

which is supported by the fact that PSIII wasn't going to be remade.

I already explained why this doesn't support much.[/quote]

Not a good enough reason.

[BenoitRen]

No, it didn't. You're clutching at straws here.

The script is very clear on it, and no one but you has disagreed. Read it.

Not a good enough reason.

I gave several good reasons. You'll have to explain why they aren't instead of a simple "nuh uh".

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

No, it didn't. You're clutching at straws here.

The script is very clear on it, and no one but you has disagreed. Read it.

Not a good enough reason.

I gave several good reasons. You'll have to explain why they aren't instead of a simple "nuh uh".

I'll continue this until you break...

[Wing-0]

You broke me already... Laughing...

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

You broke me already... Laughing...

I have that effect on people.