PS Maker

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PS Maker

Postby HTD » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:52 pm

Hi, I am currently in talks with a coder ( A reliable one this time).
I am proposing that we all chip in together and pay to create a PS MAKER.

This would be similar to RPG Maker in nature but cater exclusively for PS games.
Having it based of the ps4 engine as far as battle system, hunters guilds and shops etc...

In order to do this I will require support from the community, I will require some form of donations, input, help with design etc...

I have a community project idea we can use the engine for, a full scare reimagination of PS3.

Let me know what you think
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Postby BenoitRen » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:43 pm

As a coder myself... Unless this is open source and in a language that doesn't require a virtual machine, I'm not interested.
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Postby HTD » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:45 pm

It would be in python and be open source, as it would be a community application.
To be honest this would be the best thing to happen to the PS community and would help you enhance your game light years ahead of having to create it all from scratch. You could take the engine that would play like a clone of ps 4 and amp it up without a problem.

Thanks for the input though benoitren
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Postby vilkacis » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:14 am

I find the concept unrealistic. The audience is limited and outside the classic PS community, your tool would compete directly with RMXP and other current makers, which already have plenty of custom material made for them. In fact, a PSIV-styled game maker would have few advantages over RPG Maker with custom scripts.

Furthermore, and again, the audience is limited. This means a relatively high cost per individual if you're paying for development.

Finally, there are a couple of fan games going right now, all of them most likely so deeply rooted in whatever programs they were created in that the authors would be unwilling to port all their work even for a better combat engine. How many more PS fangames are you expecting to see? How many of them do you expect to see completed?

As for a PS3 remake project, it's been tried and failed many times already, and community based projects (as sad as it is) basically never go anywhere. I strongly doubt a new engine will change this.

TL;DR: this project would eat lots of time and resources for very little actual gain.
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Postby HTD » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:07 am

You both make points to consider.

I do feel though your attitude is what prevents projects from actualization.
I mean no offense to you though as I know although negative, its honest.

I have decided to take that on board and rethink things.

As for the ps3 project of the past, i'll be honest.
I could do better.

Thanks Guys you have been helpful
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Postby Wing-0 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:04 am

I myself worked on a PS3 remake project, finishing a script, character designs and half of the monster designs. However, the coder back then (Naflign) one day went AWOL and hasn't reappeared ever since. Most of the people I had gathered to help me (drawing sprites is a pain in the ass) lost interest since nothing we made could be put unto motion and I, myself started having a more and more stressful life, which is something that has only diminished a little.

I don't completely agree with Vilkacis, in that I would like to see an engine despite possibly competing with RPGMaker XP. Still, to be completely realistic, making an engine from scratch for a single niche class project has little chance of working. There is little point in this time to maintain the original sprite design template instead of a more elaborate one. The combat system is dated, even if some of the things in it haven't been used again like macros and combination attacks.

In my opinion, your efforts would be better spent in an engine with a more elaborate 2D RPG application or applications in mind.

It doesn't matter whether RPG Maker XP is considered the best available engine out there. The fact of the matter is that it is a closed source, hacked and probably illegal engine, not to mention that to some, running it and fiddling with it is a REAL pain in the rectum. An easier to use, open source engine for ANY RPG application would be better received by potential users. Benoit is a coder, for example, and I'd bet he would like to analyze it.

Personally, I would be one, since I refuse to use any RPG Maker for several reasons that I'm too lazy to discuss and that don't mean anything to this post. I have had the time to work on projects of any kind, especially this past summer where in its second half I actually got my creativity back.

Would I work on a PS3 remake again? No. There are one or two projects already. Would I like to work on a fan PS project? Yes, if my time allows for it. Would I want to work on a non related project? Definitely. While PS is one of the series I love the most, my mind doesn't dwell exclusively on it.

Long story short:

Classic PS engine: Not the way to go
A more general application engine: The best way to go

Open source: Hell yes
Python: Great choice

Those are my two cents.

The problem with coders is precisely that little word. Reliability.
Most of the coders I knew and know have little time to devote to a project like this. Life matters are always important, and the only way to get such a work would mean being paid. That's where your donation idea comes into play, but donations are hard to come by. In my case, I can't donate, I am pressed by immediate necessities that require most of the money I earn, so you would get zero from me. There are methods to publicize the project and request donations, but alas, I am oblivious to them.

There is a project for a hopefully Facebook killing application called Diaspora. They asked for donations and they got them. Point to note, they have kept people updated and are currently showing advances, with an Alpha of their project.

The most I could do, if you planned to go through with a general application engine, would be suggest applications for say, a battle system, types of attacks, subsystems (like counters for say, choosing an effect or something), which is what I was doing with Naflign back when he was working in his RPG engine.
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Postby BenoitRen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:07 pm

I'm reminded of Naflign's attempt as well. He was using SDL, a library I also use. It's a shame that he hasn't released any source code while he was working on it, as it would definitely have been useful.

I didn't know you were part of that project, WING-0. Cool. :)
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Postby Zucca » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:28 pm

HTD wrote:It would be in python and be open source
That's it. This sounds already too good to be true.
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Postby vilkacis » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:13 pm

HTD wrote:I do feel though your attitude is what prevents projects from actualization.

My attitude is the direct result of years spent watching different interesting projects - some of which I've contributed to - appearing and fizzling out for any number of reasons. The community as a whole used to be more optimistic, but you get kind of tired of it after the tenth time you've worked on a script, proofreading or resource for someone who never posts again.
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Postby HTD » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:45 pm

Yeah I understand that vilkacis, I am not having a dig at all.
I still feel though you need to be optimistic yet realistic, its a difficult balance.

WING-0 I agree with your post but if it was a more general purpose maker that would increase the process ten fold, financially and time wise.

Id go back to my original idea way back of using a RPG MAKER VX (or XP) custom made PS game, pay a coder to create it to mimic PS4's engine, but this would eliminate the user friendly idea instantly and also not really be much of a PS GAME MAKER.

I look at the community right now, I am proud of the love we all have.
Yet I think to myself, how can I encourage people to expand our fan games.
The main problem is the game engine to work with, So far the only game I think is doing anything interesting for me is PS: Genesis.

Another problem is peoples graphical and artistic limitations here.
As you know I can try and teach beginners how to sprite characters, create animations and battlers but drawing maps and backgrounds is something that takes time.

We also don't seem to have much musicians anymore (although I could be wrong).

If Sega could get their act together and start producing "real" PS games again, I wouldn't feel that fan games are not that important but in truth, its just not going to happen.

Perhaps Its time to let the old series go and as stated by WING-0 and focus on something entirely original.

Once again thank you for your comments all of you.
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Postby Wing-0 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:44 pm

I never said to let the old series go. You're wrongly quoting me there. What I said is to stop adhering to the artistic limitations of seventeen years ago. That's how long it's been since PS4 was released (1993 in Japan). People can now do much more. If you want to make a PS game with a PS4 like combat system, you can do it, I just think that grabbing old sprites and "repurposing" for making a game with those same graphical limitations is not the way to go. There are free tools like gimp with which an artist or artists can do much, much better things.

As mentioned before, yes, it IS a pain in the ass to make all those sprites (Daren's case for example). I KNOW what it is to make sprites both in the same fashion as completely new sprites. I made several myself and a few friends helped me. Still, I ask once again the same question: Why constrict ourselves? I'm not saying "Let's make an HD PS game, yay". I'm merely saying "Let's create".

Also, amore general engine doesn't have to be all that messy...
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Postby Wing-0 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:51 pm

PS3, bear with me ...

What I mean with not that messy nor such a big undertaking for a single coder, is that making it open source, your friend can, let's say, make a PS4 clone engine. Then, another coder comes in and checks it, making a new section for the program to add, I dunno, a combat engine similar to Valkyrie Profile. Then, another one comes along and decides he or she wants a Final Fantasy 6 clone combat system.

The trick would probably be in making it a modular design, when the program, when making a game, asks the user "What kind of combat system do you want? PS4? Valkyrie Profile? Final Fantasy 6? or Other?"

With the field system, items, equipment, everything can be managed in more or less the same way. That's why we adapt so easily to RPGs nowadays. They mostly follow a preset design. Modifying the interface would be another problem, but one that with a little cleverness can be overcome.
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Postby Wing-0 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:59 pm

Those ar things I discussed with Naflign when he mentioned his idea for an RPG engine waaaaaay back in 2002, 2003 and that's the consensus we reached. An open source engine that can be expanded after it has been released.

Musicians aren't that difficult to come by. There are musicians I have found in other places that HAVE played Phantasy Star in their childhoods and still remembe it fondly. You just gotta search.

As you can see, we are a rather reduced community by either time or personal foolishness in the past (something which I witnessed often back then). Still, the inactive people is not all that lobotomized not to remember.

I also don't think I'm negative. I'm a complete realist and a pragmatist. If something has little chance of working, I call it as such. Your idea for a PS4 clone engine as it stands has a limited chance to succeed. If your friend makes a modular one instead, the opportunity of creating an alternative to RPG Maker XP has the chance to succeed. All that is needed is a clean code.
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Postby BenoitRen » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:12 pm

WING-0 wrote:If you want to make a PS game with a PS4 like combat system, you can do it, I just think that grabbing old sprites and "repurposing" for making a game with those same graphical limitations is not the way to go.

*looks at Mega Man 9 and 10*

I don't agree. I think there's something to be said for wanting to make a new Mega Drive RPG.
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Postby Wing-0 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:12 pm

Example:

Imagine your friend makes a basic shell with "slots" and packages it into a single program, releases the source code and voila. There's a PS4 engine. Then, let's say Benoit comes along and says "Lemme see what is inside this pudding". He then adds a second combat engine and some tweaks to the original code.

The idea of an open source engine is also nothing new. People have before expressed displeasure with RPG Maker's interface, the fact that it is an illegal download, a pain to run in some OSs and many other complaints. Hell, Naflign's idea and his reason for choosing Python was because it can be ported easily between Windows and Linux (his personal choice).

So there you have it. PS wise, I'm sure there are good people with ideas in their brains. I myself have a story (non PS) that I wrote a long time ago and think would make for an interesting and a bit unorthodox RPG. Still, the MAIN thing holding people back is the problem of an engine. Artists and such can be obtained more or less easily.
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