Phantasy Star IV fan boys/girls annoy me

[Ratix240sx]

to coment on the fact that PSIII was rushed, Sega always seems to rush its devs....even their mascot isn't immune to this, pretty much every main Sonic game has been rushed....

[Heroic_Chaz]

Aye, I can agree with that. Sega does rush many things... NiGHTS, Sonic Adventure 1, and even Shining Force were rushed. However, even rushed, we can't say they weren't good games, because they were.

The same applies to the Phantasy Star Series. Naturally, everyone has their favorite game of the series, and it might conflict with how you view the series with your eyes. It doesn't make you right or wrong.

[BenoitRen]

That's still a pretty good spread of RPGs for back in the day.

A spread of the best RPGs, not of the entire genre.

And, well, if PS is a series we hold in high regard, why wouldn't we compare a game from it to the best games of the time? It's one of the best series, after all.

Because I'm arguing that PSIII isn't a horrible game, not that it's a classic on par with Lunar of Shining Force. So the comparison isn't relevant.

Heroic_Chaz, where did you get the idea that NiGHTS and Shining Force were rushed?

By the way, in the similarly-themed thread on Fringes of Algo, someone had an interesting opinion:

It's everything a matter of taste. Having played all the games in order, for me, PS4 is by far the worst of the series, because the story, in my opinion, is immature and predictable. In my view, it is PS4 that steer badly from the series, not PS3, which is a good game, because it has a good plot. IMO, PS4 is just a bland game, with a poor argument, filled with clichès and unnecessary references to other PS, in a way that they harm the story of the others. It's ok from the graphic quality, but that's just the evolution of the technology. In my opinion it is just a bland book with a luxurious cover, while the others are really good books with a poor cover.

[meteor9]

A spread of the best RPGs, not of the entire genre.

Exactly how many other Genesis RPGs came out that year? As I said, that's a pretty large chunk of the genre at that time.

Because I'm arguing that PSIII isn't a horrible game, not that it's a classic on par with Lunar of Shining Force. So the comparison isn't relevant.

So as long as we don't compare it to good games, it's not horrible? Look, I'm sorry, but that's kinda the worst position ever. Again, maybe we're just losing something in a miscommunication, but this is what it always seems to boil down to.

By the way, in the similarly-themed thread on Fringes of Algo, someone had an interesting opinion:

It's everything a matter of taste. Having played all the games in order, for me, PS4 is by far the worst of the series, because the story, in my opinion, is immature and predictable. In my view, it is PS4 that steer badly from the series, not PS3, which is a good game, because it has a good plot. IMO, PS4 is just a bland game, with a poor argument, filled with clichès and unnecessary references to other PS, in a way that they harm the story of the others. It's ok from the graphic quality, but that's just the evolution of the technology. In my opinion it is just a bland book with a luxurious cover, while the others are really good books with a poor cover.

PS4 has a predictable story. We all know this. That's also kinda not the point. It wraps up every loose end and does so with an incredibly memorable and fun cast, and does it in a (for the time) revolutionary way. (The comic panels and all that.)

To say that PS3 has a good plot after saying that PS4 is shit is kinda, um, I dunno, indicative of a lack of reading skills? What was the plot of PS3 again? "We're at war! Also, dark force! We're in SPAAAACE? ....Dark Force!" Were it EVER expanded upon beyond that I'd give it to them, but by god, it wasn't. Stuff just happened in that game that sorta kinda led to a climax, which wasn't much of a climax as much as it was a "Uh...why the hell are we here?" moment.

I'm getting to the point where it seems that there's a more desperate and fanatical faction of devotees to PS3 than any other game in the series. And so far, none of them have been able to make a convincing argument. I'm sorry.

[Zucca]

to coment on the fact that PSIII was rushed, Sega always seems to rush its devs....even their mascot isn't immune to this, pretty much every main Sonic game has been rushed....

Yeah. Sonics seem to have lots of glitches.

[Mono]

PSIII story sucks because you don´t have some silly spiritual being to tell you every secret of the universe while they sit on their crystal throne in their invisible world that never got visible through the aeroprism before. PLOT, FTW.

[meteor9]

PSIII story sucks because you don´t have some silly spiritual being to tell you every secret of the universe while they sit on their crystal throne in their invisible world that never got visible through the aeroprism before. PLOT, FTW.

The line of old men who do the same thing, of course, are a much better plot device!

[Mono]

Well, at least they were always there. Where was Rykros when Rolf used the prism?

[meteor9]

Well, at least they were always there. Where was Rykros when Rolf used the prism?

Getting a pizza, from what I can gather.

Still, for all of it's shoehorned-in status, Rykros was still pretty important for wrapping up the whole series and for showing us that, in the end, Chaz is just a confused kid desperately trying to keep up with everything that has happened to him. Silly magic fire people on a magical cloaked planet aside, it was still executed better than all of PS3.

[BenoitRen]

Exactly how many other Genesis RPGs came out that year?

Why are you suddenly restricting this to Genesis/Mega Drive RPGs?

Answering your question, I count 11 on GameFAQs. You go count the SNES ones.

• Blue Almanac
• Exile
• The Faery Tale Adventure
• Fatal Labyrinth
• Fushigi no Umi no Nadia
• Might and Magic: Gates to Another World
• Rent A Hero (by the same designer, Saiki)
• Rings of Power
• Shi no Meikyuu
• Shining in the Darkness
• Ys III: Wanderers from Ys

So as long as we don't compare it to good games, it's not horrible?

*facepalm*

You're comparing it to the best games of the time instead of the average RPG of the time.

A spread of the best RPGs, not of the entire genre.

It wraps up every loose end

No, it doesn't. It doesn't tell us what happens to Alis after PSI. It doesn't tell us what became of Odin, who is strangely missing from the series' post-PSI lore. It doesn't tell us who won at the end of PSII and what happened with the Noah. It doesn't tell us what happened with the Alisa III.

To say that PS3 has a good plot after saying that PS4 is shit is kinda, um, I dunno, indicative of a lack of reading skills?

Fanboyism detected. Look, PSIV has great execution. Just because it has more lines of dialogue doesn't make its plot any better. You're also simplifying PSIII's plot, which I can also do with PSIV if you want. There was more to PSIII's plot.

I'm getting to the point where it seems that there's a more desperate and fanatical faction of devotees to PS3 than any other game in the series. And so far, none of them have been able to make a convincing argument.

I think the problem is that you just can't be convinced, nor do I expect you to be. Just because some people have wildly different opinions about PSIV like above and you can't be convinced does not make us desperate.

Lastly, I want to note that the story is the execution, and the plot is the setup.

[meteor9]

Exactly how many other Genesis RPGs came out that year?

Why are you suddenly restricting this to Genesis/Mega Drive RPGs?

Because that's what CommieCowboy seemed to be focusing on (with the 'FF4 could've been done on the Genesis' thing he'd said). I was just continuing off of that point. Also, it's relevant since it's probably likely that those other games may have been rushed too, and still came out good as opposed to...well, you know.

EDIT: Also, because they'd be made on the same technology. That also says something if a bunch of other companies can do it well and, yet, SEGA can only match the mediocre ones on their own hardware.

Answering your question, I count 11 on GameFAQs. You go count the SNES ones.

• Blue Almanac
• Exile
• The Faery Tale Adventure
• Fatal Labyrinth
• Fushigi no Umi no Nadia
• Might and Magic: Gates to Another World
• Rent A Hero (by the same designer, Saiki)
• Rings of Power
• Shi no Meikyuu
• Shining in the Darkness
• Ys III: Wanderers from Ys

I'm not sure that PC ports should really count in this particular comparison discussion, and a few of these are very Japanese only so it's not that unbelievable for most of us to not know of their existence or mention them.

That said, Rent A Hero seems to be pretty well known, and popular, so it must've done something right, getting a sequel on the DC or whatnot. So if it was the same designer, why couldn't he have done PS3 justice?

So as long as we don't compare it to good games, it's not horrible?

*facepalm*

Okay, okay. So your point is that PS3 isn't that bad when compared to average games. This says absolutely nothing good about the game. I'm not sure why it's even a point of discussion since it just proves my point that it's not a good game.

It wraps up every loose end

No, it doesn't. It doesn't tell us what happens to Alis after PSI. It doesn't tell us what became of Odin, who is strangely missing from the series' post-PSI lore. It doesn't tell us who won at the end of PSII and what happened with the Noah. It doesn't tell us what happened with the Alisa III.

It doesn't need to tell us any of these things. What happens with Alis isn't a loose end: it's a player decision. The canon works just as well either way if she becomes Queen or if she doesn't. The canon, then, is just whatever it was that you chose. Not much of a loose end. Odin isn't mentioned because he's

A: Not responsible for leading a party to defeat Lassic, and
B: Not filled to the brim with absurd Esper powers.

And, really, what more could Odin have done in his lifespan? We would assume that Alis' reign (if there was one) didn't have another DF powered tyrant trying to mess stuff up, wouldn't we? Since Odin's forte is hitting things with a big ol' axe, do we really need to know about his succesful lumberjack career in times of piece?

...damn, I think we do, actually.

As for the end of PS2, I thought the whole non-confirming ending was what everyone liked about it? Sure, I might not like it, but I've yet to come across anyone saying it was bad. Wouldn't answering that mystery completely spoil the effect?

And, as for PS3, what do we need to know? There's four endings that tell us what happen. Any one of them is perfectly viable in the PS lore. There's no reason to specify which one is the 'correct' one.

So, no, these aren't loose ends. PS4 explains the origins of this DF guy who, up until now, kept coming back every thousand years "because." And, well, that may very well be the only loose end, actually. But PS4 does do a damn good job of leaving you satisfied with every character in it's ending, and I really can't think of what else in the entire series lore needs tying up.

To say that PS3 has a good plot after saying that PS4 is shit is kinda, um, I dunno, indicative of a lack of reading skills?

Fanboyism detected. Look, PSIV has great execution. Just because it has more lines of dialogue doesn't make its plot any better. You're also simplifying PSIII's plot, which I can also do with PSIV if you want. There was more to PSIII's plot.

PS4's plot IS simple. No one is denying this; hell, I keep saying it. But the execution is what makes a game/story/movie good. And frankly there's a lot of games I could replace PS4 with in my previous statement: It's not a fanboy thing, it's a quality thing. Both games are generic 'save the world from vague Dark power' and both games attempt to have wide, varied casts. The problem is that only one of these games succesfully pulls this off, and I'll bet it's not the one with zero fanbase support.

I think the problem is that you just can't be convinced, nor do I expect you to be. Just because some people have wildly different opinions about PSIV like above and you can't be convinced does not make us desperate.

Lastly, I want to note that the story is the execution, and the plot is the setup.

I'm just not sure why you went to another board to get a quote from a guy who has the strangest reasons for disliking PS4. Hell, I don't like PS3 for being 'different.' Not liking a game for being different is, honestly, one of the worst fanboy kind of trends in the world. Which is why FF9 was panned after FF7 and FF8, despite FF9 having a superior cast.

And, hey, I'm all for PS3 having potential. It did, after all. But since none of it was executed, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to feel bad for it, or treat it like anything other than what it is; a rushed, bad game.

Really, what it all boils down to is that whenever this argument comes up, it's always like an attack, and when that happens I tend to respond in kind. I'm not some mindless GameFAQs fanboy; generally I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

[Abominae]

Let me wrap this up here.

First, the loose ends about the PS series are irrelevent! (wasn't PS gaiden about what happend to Alis after PS1...?) No one really cares what happend to Odin because he is only mentioned as one of the guys that was with you! (seriously... you really want to make an argument over the least mentioned character in the entire PS series?)

here's the thing to remember (and I know replys about this are already in the works, but I don't care because the argument is pointless):

PS1 - is remembered because of 2 reasons: 1) It is the first of what would become a very beloved series, and 2) it was massively different from other games at the time (and just plain massive).

PS2 - An unforgettable classic. Maybe not as successful as PS4 (I can't tell you one way or the other), but it's staying power is obviously relevant. If you go to forums for other series, people are much more likely to remember PS2 than any other PS game (even PSO/PSU... I've checked this for myself with surprising results)

PS3 - the black sheep of this family and while it was innovative and unique, it simply didn't cut it with fans. It will be missed... but only by those who chose to find the charm in this lack-luster title.

PS4 - The brightest title in the series. Unquestionably. Whatever you can find to hold against this title is just nitpicking.



I saw this argument earlier in the thread and wanted to comment.

PS3 is a good game until compared to other famous titles of that era because it would be a slap in the face to those other great games to have to share the light with PS3

You wouldn't compare Max Calaveras (Sepultura/Soulfly) to Yngwie Malmsteen, now would you?

[BenoitRen]

That said, Rent A Hero seems to be pretty well known, and popular, so it must've done something right, getting a sequel on the DC or whatnot. So if it was the same designer, why couldn't he have done PS3 justice?

Why are you even asking that question? We already know; the game was rushed. Sega didn't give the man enough time to craft his vision into the game.

Okay, okay. So your point is that PS3 isn't that bad when compared to average games. This says absolutely nothing good about the game. I'm not sure why it's even a point of discussion since it just proves my point that it's not a good game.

Stop twisting my words around. For its time, PSIII was an okay game. Not a great game that compares with FFIV, Shining Force and other classics, but still decent.

Odin isn't mentioned because he's

A: Not responsible for leading a party to defeat Lassic, and
B: Not filled to the brim with absurd Esper powers.

Neither was Myau, yet he got references in each game, and a homage in PSIV.

And, really, what more could Odin have done in his lifespan?

Anything. He could have started an organisation of some kind, or left a heritage in the form of an axe fighting style or children.

Hell, he had this mythical Laconian Axe. Where did it go? If the Laconian Axe Gryz has at the of PSIV is his, why isn't it ever mentioned?

As for the end of PS2, I thought the whole non-confirming ending was what everyone liked about it?

That's true, but it's still a loose end.

But PS4 does do a damn good job of leaving you satisfied with every character in it's ending

I personally disagree. It's a sad ending that just forcefully separates us from the characters without any hint as to what they may become.

I really can't think of what else in the entire series lore needs tying up

How about Dark Force's promise in PSIII to come back in 1000 years?

PS4's plot IS simple. No one is denying this; hell, I keep saying it. But the execution is what makes a game/story/movie good.

I agree, but you keep talking as if PSIII's plot was bad, while it's the exection that was lacking.

I'm just not sure why you went to another board to get a quote from a guy who has the strangest reasons for disliking PS4.

I'm so sorry I happen to read the only other Phantasy Star message board in existence.

wasn't PS gaiden about what happend to Alis after PS1...?

Not really. It was supposed to be a prequel to an early version of PSIV.

[LegoMuskCat]

PSIII's my favorite game in the series, and yet I played PSIV first. Hell, I also like PSII more than PSIV.

When it comes down to it, it's all a matter of preference. I like games that are dungeon crawlers (omg like PSII!), as opposed to easy to-the-point things that tell you exactly where to go and how to do it. Certainly, PSIV was lacking in difficulty since that there was no guesswork involved at all. Meanwhile, PSI, PSII, and especially PSIII gave more subtle hints and left you at a loss at points. ;p

PSIV isn't a bad game, but it has no reply value. There isn't anything special that you can't find on a 2nd run, or a 3rd. True, the details are there, and the game may have excellent execution, but it leaves little to the imagination. I honestly can't bring myself to touch it for any reason after having beat it a few times, either.

That, and fanboyism might have something to do with it... They killed Phantasy Star for me. :\

[Adrastia]

Phantasy Star 4 is my favorite of the series. With PS2 a close second. However I appreciate all the games and actually liked PS3.

Sure it has flaws. It has an unfinished feel and leaves you wanting more after you've seen everything it has to offer you already. The characterization isn't as good as it should be. But it's also unfair to judge that by today's standards.

I think that for the time PS2 did give some good background info for each character in-game. It was decent enough that youcould get a good idea of what everyone was about. It just left me feeling a little out in the cold due to the tiny smattering of in game character conversation. You only get this when a character joins you or when a major event transpires.

The first PS was alright in that respect for its time. The moving sequence with Alis and her brother is a good example. But like most RPGs of its era it suffered from too many cold spots where no one was saying anything to each other.

PS4 had alot of character development and interaction by comparisson. Almost everywhere you went you could enjoy some nice sequence. And while having everything explained to you can be annoying unless you are a novice gamer and need the direction, this does make the game more accessable. If you wanted to introduce someone to Phantasy Star this might be the best place to start.

While I like a challenge, (I actually enjoyed the horrifying frustration of Beyond the Beyond) I also understand that not everyone has the patience to grind levels for hours on end just to beat a boss or clear a dungeon without dying.

PS3's flaws might make it unplayable to some. And its easy to understand why. But if you take the time to play through it then you can easily realise all of the lost potential. If any RPG ever could benefit from a remake this would be it. The characters, setting and story are just begging for more room to grow. It's actually a fantastic tale that could have really benefitted from some simple filling in of the blanks even.
Lyle looks like a fun guy. I'm sure Laya's sister has alot to say. Ryan has the potential to have a much more interesting backstory. Most of the NPCs in the early part of the game aren't really very interesting. And I've heard that the english translation is partially to blame for that.
There isn't enough music or variety of environments and that is a shame. But that alone doesn't make it a bad game.

As for the story, the opening narration seems to imply that after the Layan/Orakian war there were alot of casualties and people ended up isolated and just trying to survive. The xenophobia that each group had for the other made interaction impossible. The isolation of places like New Mota, Techna and Aerone suggest that there were very few societies that managed to salvage any past knowledge that had practical use. And even then its use was limited. Why they didn't try to educate others is probably due to the fact that Layans and Orakians feared each other so much that they may have been frightened to hand over any useful knowledge to potential enemies. There were too many kingdoms fighting with each other even long after the war.
Although Layans retained their monster creating technology and Orakians were still making robots and cyborgs neither side seemed to be doing much with it save for fighting each other and stockpiling defenses out of fear. At least that's what I got out of it.

Sometimes you have to use your imagination. I remember when I played Dragon Warrior for NES. There wasn't much to it. You were a guy with a sword. You kill a dragon, rescue a princess then move on to the big boss. Other than being a decendant of a past hero and being forced to love that stupid princess (You can't say no. She insists that you must love her. x.x ) there's nothing there. So I started to make stuff up as I played.
Sometimes if you know too much about a character they lose their appeal because aspects about them may not agree with your perception of them. And while I think that a silent protagonist is a bit to extreme, it's nice to have some blanks to fill in yourself. That way the character can be more of what you'd like it to be and it might be more endeared to you in the end.
Sure in PS3 they threw the whole "rescue the princess from the dragon" thing at you. But they did it in a way that was inovative and interesting. And you weren't forced to love Maia. You could marry Lena instead.
If this game were made today I imagine that the marriage aspect would be played up a bit more. Getting to know the girls more would have been fun.

I've seen a topic on GameFAQs about PS2 getting bad rating when it's compared to PS4. I think part of the problem is that often reviews are a little too personal. A review needs to touch on all points to be decent. You have to think about who may or may not enjoy the game and why. It's not all about your distaste for the graphics, sound or gameplay. Just because you think PS2 is bad compared to PS4 doesn't mean that PS2 is garbage. It's far from garbage. It might be a sequel but it's also a different game. Would a job system at the central tower have been nice? Yes. Would more character interaction have been nice? Yes. Bonus dungeons? Absolutely. Combination attacks? That would have been great. But these things aren't present and you have to take it as is. It's the same for the other games in the series. Enjoy the games for what they are, not what they could have been if the developers had a time machine or clairovoyance.

And no one should ever use contemporary games as a platform to bash older ones. I see way too much of that too and it really ticks me off.