Interesting Rune info to debate..

[Lord Khyron]

<blockquote>Thray's Past<br>At the age of 15, having inherited Lutz's will and memory, Thray was made lord of Esper Mansion and underwent strict astetic training. After that, Thray visited Motabia for further training and to broaden his range of experience. At this time, he became acquainted with Lyla's teacher, the Hunter Galf. Thray, Galf, and Lyla spent four years together, but, after Galf's death, Thray returned to Dezolis.</blockquote> <p>So Rune should have known about Dark Force then.. He was playing stupid the whole damn time! <p>The act about the telepathy Ball was a complete lie!

[Mizehrith]

He knew about Dark Force, he just didn't know the party would encounter it on Kuran when they went there to investigate. When they spotted it, though, he recognized it.<p>

Rika: Wait! What's that?<p>Chaz: What? Where?<p>Rika: Over there! In the shadows!<p>[DF appears, attached to the computer terminals...]<p>Rika: What on earth? This feeling of oppression...!<p>Rune: Dark... Force!<p>Chaz: Did you say Dark Force!? You mean the Dark Force who revived Zio as a <br>god?<p>Wren: It appears that Dark Force is the cause of everything. Let us remove it.<p>Rune: Easier said than done.<p>[After the battle ensues and the party emerges victorious...]<p>Rune: Did we... do it?<p>Chaz: Yep! We've won! OK Wren! Get Kuran back to normal!<p>Wren: Roger!<p>Rune: Hmph...<p>Chaz: Rune, can I ask you something?<p>Rune: What is it?<p>Chaz: How did you know... that monster was Dark Force Zio was talking about?<p>Rune: Ah! Er... I've seen it before.<p>Chaz: What? What do you mean you've seen it before?!<p>Rune: I'll tell you sometime... Just wait until then, will you?

<p>Then later on in Esper Mansion, it's revealed that Rune inherited Lutz' will and memory which explains how he would've "seen" it before.<p>[size=small][Edit by Mizehrith on [TIME]1108451106[/TIME]][/size]

[Malakai]

You beat me to it.<p>I think it's self evident then that Rune did it all for Chaz's sake, recognizing him as the protector who would eventually wield Elsydeon. Rune was smarter than meets the eye in the dialogue.

[Shell Presto]

I think Khyron is referring to the bigger picture: Rune would know that Dark Force has a habit of popping up every 1,000 years, and he could have given the party more information on what he knew. <p>One could even go so far to say that Rune traveled to Motavia expressly because he knew he'd be needed in the fight with Dark Force. Which brings up the question of why he wouldn't tell Alys and Chaz about what they might have been going up against.

[LaconianShot]

I think that the 1000 year cycle applies more in a poetic sense then an actual, exact period of 1000 years. It wouldn't be 1000 years on the dot... it's safe to assume that there would be a variation of about 30 or 50 years, seeing that this amount of time would be very little to such a timeless being as the Profound Darkness.

[AlysBrangwin]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Shell Presto</i><p>I think Khyron is referring to the bigger picture: Rune would know that Dark Force has a habit of popping up every 1,000 years, and he could have given the party more information on what he knew. <p>One could even go so far to say that Rune traveled to Motavia expressly because he knew he'd be needed in the fight with Dark Force. Which brings up the question of why he wouldn't tell Alys and Chaz about what they might have been going up against.<br></blockquote><p>I guess he didn't think they would and/or want them to get involved. <i>*shrugs*</i> <br><p>[size=small][Edit by AlysBrangwin on [TIME]1108497981[/TIME]][/size]

[Benoit]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by LaconianShot</i><p>I think that the 1000 year cycle applies more in a poetic sense then an actual, exact period of 1000 years. It wouldn't be 1000 years on the dot... it's safe to assume that there would be a variation of about 30 or 50 years, seeing that this amount of time would be very little to such a timeless being as the Profound Darkness.<br></blockquote><br>I don't think so. The Phantasy Star games all are 1000 years apart, and the bad events that happen before the games start aren't more than 1 year ago.

[Lord Khyron]

Well you see.. Lashiec summoned DF BEFORE he was supposed to escape the seal in PS 1. Lashiec summoned him early.<p>No what gets me about Rune is, If Rune had the memories of Lutz, Luts KNEW of Algo's Genesis.. Why the hell did Rune play like a moron when Le Roof was explaining?<p>Compendium Info..<p> <blockquote><p>AW 341 - La Shiec learns the secret of the Algol Solar System's genesis. Forming a space-time gate, he comes into contact with the sealed-away spirit-life form. As a result, he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. That same year, a reign of terror begins.<p>AW 349 - Lutz, continuing to research Dark Force, finds that the gate that La Shiec opened cannot be perfectly resealed, and realizes that the resultant fluctuations will therefore once again reach their peak after 1,000 years. He assembles his fellow Espers that are watching the gate and enters into cold sleep.<p>AW 1299 - Lutz dies. His will and memory are carried within a gem in a temple in the Esper Mansion's inner sanctum.<p>Esper Mansion (II, IV)<br>The building in which Lutz gathered his fellow Espers after the fall of the Landeel dynasty. The assembled comrades created the Nei series of weapons and Elsydeon to guide the heroes foretold to eventually appear and prepare them for Dark Force's rebirth. [A note on the "Nei weapons" - the raw Japanese in the book reads "Nei shiriizu no buki" - "Nei series's weapons". Since the term "Nei series" is used in the book to refer to Nei, Neifirst, and their species, the legendary arms could be either the series (as in group or collection) of "Nei (the one girl) weapons", or the weapons named after the entire "Nei series (as in species)". Anyway.] <br></blockquote> <p>If Rune inherited Lutz memories, Then why the hell doesn't he know what le roof does? It explicitely states that Lutz researched the gate Lashiec opened..<p>And as we see here..<p>"AW 1284 - Eusis, who has become a Motabian Agent, is assigned to the Biosystem incident"<p>It's not 1000 years for the rebirth of Dark Falz.. Lashiec Screwed it up. It is actually.. 943 years.

[PSP]

<blockquote>AW 341 - La Shiec learns the secret of the Algol Solar System's genesis. Forming a space-time gate, he comes into contact with the sealed-away spirit-life form. As a result, he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. That same year, a reign of terror begins.<p>AW 349 - Lutz, continuing to research Dark Force, finds that the gate that La Shiec opened cannot be perfectly resealed, and realizes that the resultant fluctuations will therefore once again reach their peak after 1,000 years. He assembles his fellow Espers that are watching the gate and enters into cold sleep.<p>AW 1299 - Lutz dies. His will and memory are carried within a gem in a temple in the Esper Mansion's inner sanctum.<p>Esper Mansion (II, IV)<br>The building in which Lutz gathered his fellow Espers after the fall of the Landeel dynasty. The assembled comrades created the Nei series of weapons and Elsydeon to guide the heroes foretold to eventually appear and prepare them for Dark Force's rebirth. [A note on the "Nei weapons" - the raw Japanese in the book reads "Nei shiriizu no buki" - "Nei series's weapons". Since the term "Nei series" is used in the book to refer to Nei, Neifirst, and their species, the legendary arms could be either the series (as in group or collection) of "Nei (the one girl) weapons", or the weapons named after the entire "Nei series (as in species)". Anyway.] <br></blockquote> <p>If Rune inherited Lutz memories, Then why the hell doesn't he know what le roof does? It explicitely states that Lutz researched the gate Lashiec opened..<p>And as we see here..<p>"AW 1284 - Eusis, who has become a Motabian Agent, is assigned to the Biosystem incident"<p>It's not 1000 years for the rebirth of Dark Falz.. Lashiec Screwed it up. It is actually.. 943 years. [/quote]<p>Lots of assumption on your part, there. Not to mention, the compendium *does* conflict with the actual games in some respects. Example?<p>LE ROOF: Yes, it is. The Algo solar system. The Great Light also distributed Protectors of the seal between three tribes -- the Parmanians, Motavians, and Dezolisians. But there were fluctuations in the strength of the seal. Once every thousand years, its power would weaken drastically. As a warning of this phenomenon The Great Light created Rykros, which returns to Algo once every thousand years, and myself, Le Roof.<p>Now, this seems to say, to me, that Algo was an imperfect seal to begin with. The Great Light created 'Protectors' to combat the physical manifestation, Dark Force, every 1000 years. The compendium, on the other hand, seems to state that the problem was caused by Lashiec's actions. <p>It's a common problem with source books written after a series is done. People go back and rethink elements of the story, or try to create material to fill holes, and it doesn't mesh. Going by the book, however, if Lutz did indeed discover that Lashiec opened a rift from which Dark Force emerged, I don't think he knew that the rift was actually an interdimensional prison sealed by their very solar system. And Rune does obviously know there is a bigger evil stirring (which is possibly all that Lutz learned, aside from the ressurection of the darkness every 1000 years). Also, knowing the darkness existed didn't necessary mean he knew it's origin (and given the extreme power of the darkness, I don't think Lutz was able to go trapsing into the Edge for recon).<p>And whoever said PS games take place every 1000 years, not quite...<p>PSI - Spring, AW342<br>PSII - Unknown, AW1284<br>PSIV - Unknown, AW 2284<p>Close, but slightly off. PSI throws that off (perhaps Lashiec did mess up the cycle, or perhaps Dark Force had already been around for 58 years, and Lashiec's actions merely caused him to appear before Lashiec and use him as a pawn). <p>Who knows. I don't think Lutz, and therefore Rune, knew everything though. And I still maintain the Nei Sword is Elsydeon (perhaps reforged though, ala Narsil from Lord of the Rings).<p>-Corey<p>P.S. - Besides, Lutz was obviously wrong in one respect. He assumed the fluctuations would occur after 1000 years, and they took less time than that. So, either Lutz was wrong, or the Compendium is (while a good read) slightly flawed.<p>[size=small][Edit by PSP on [TIME]1108525836[/TIME]][/size]

[Lord Khyron]

Corey, the Seal on Algol was never perfect. The GL made Palmans, Motavians and Dezorians on each planet to fight the evil when the seal broke. The Algo seal was never perfect. Elsydeon is the only thing that can seal the PD away.<p>We all know the English translation is royally screwed up, look at 2 and 3.. Misc Compendium Info..<p> <blockquote>Algol Solar System Chronological Table<p>Produced by the development staff, the hidden history of the Algol Solar System up to the time of the "Millennium" is now open to the public!<p>Several Hundred Million Years Ago - In an unspecified solar system, a civilization of spirit-life forms divides, and an interplanetary war breaks out.<p>2,000,000 Years Ago - The war is settled. As a result of the victorious side sealing the defeated side away, one fixed star and four planets are created, "Protectors of the Seal" are made on the four planets, and one kind of sentient life form is allocated to each.<p>300,000 Years Ago - The entire race of victors is wiped out. Except on the fourth planet, Ryucross, the beings of the other three planets, with the passing of each successive generation, begin to forget the mission of those made Protectors. Meanwhile, in their inter-dimensional prison, the sealed-away spirit-life forms transform into a wicked being, the accumulation of spirits of hatred and vengeance, and, at its core, a profound darkness is formed.<p>The Algol Solar System (I - IV)<br>A solar system composed of one star and four planets - Parma, Motabia, Dezolis, and Ryucross. The Great Light created it as the Great Seal used to seal away the Profound Darkness. Due to the "Conjunction", the close alignment of three planets in the system in AW 843, an extraordinary event occurred, and Parma and Motabia exchanged orbits. Parma was instantly and utterly annihilated in an explosion in AW 1284, when the artificial satellite Gaila fell.<p>Dark Force (I-IV)<br>The projected form of the soul of the Profound Darkness that succeeds in physically manifesting itself every 1,000 years. The Profound Darkness, through absorbing "negative emotions" like hate and fear, weakens the seal of the Algol Solar System fashioned by the Great Light. <p>Elsydeon (IV)<br>The sword that sleeps in the Cavern of the Sacred Sword [in the Canyon of the Crescent Moon - sorry, in-joke] in the Esper Mansion's Inner Sanctum. It is said to be the only thing that can seal away the Profound Darkness. <br>Esper Mansion (II, IV)<br>The building in which Lutz gathered his fellow Espers after the fall of the Landeel dynasty. The assembled comrades created the Nei series of weapons and Elsydeon to guide the heroes foretold to eventually appear and prepare them for Dark Force's rebirth. [A note on the "Nei weapons" - the raw Japanese in the book reads "Nei shiriizu no buki" - "Nei series's weapons". Since the term "Nei series" is used in the book to refer to Nei, Neifirst, and their species, the legendary arms could be either the series (as in group or collection) of "Nei (the one girl) weapons", or the weapons named after the entire "Nei series (as in species)". Anyway.] <p>The Great Light (IV)<br>A spirit-life form that, after a battle to the death in a star system in a massive nebula long ago, created the Algol Solar System and sealed away the Profound Darkness. The Great Light then gave birth to Protectors of the Seal, the Parmans, the Motabians, and the Dezolians, on the three planets, and warned them all that the seal would weaken about every 1,000 years. <p>The Profound Darkness (IV)<br>The spirit-life form that lost to the Great Light in a huge battle that took place long ago and is locked away by the Algol Solar System. The sealed-away being, which was never before evil, drew in hateful and vengeful spirits in its interdimensional prison - whereupon it grew into a manifestation of lust for destruction and murder and transformed into a wicked being. <br>Protectors of the Seal (IV)<br>When the Great Light created the Algol Solar System and sealed away the Profound Darkness, it allotted sentient life forms to each of three planets. They were called "Parmans", "Motabians", and "Dezolians".<br>Year after year, the people fulfilled their duty and protected the seal, but, with each passing generation, the Protectors came to forget their mission, and it now lives on only in the myths of each race's civilization. <p>Ryucross (IV)<br>The fourth planet of the Algol Solar System. It is said to make only one revolution every 1,000 years, and it has a long, elliptical orbit. One cannot find it without the aforementioned Aeroprism, and no person alive knows where it is. When the seal on the Profound Darkness weakens every 1,000 years, it draws near the other three planets, its duty to warn of what's to come. The planet's guardian is the inheritor of the Great Light's will, a life form by the name of Le Roof [the "Le" pronounced like the word "lay", not like the French article "le". So, Le Roof is to the Great Light what Rune is to Lutz...? The parallel is intentional - the same phrase, "ishi o uketsugu" (to succeed to/inherit one's will, à la the Memory Ball), is used here as in the description of the Thray-Lutz relationship on pg. 20]. <p></blockquote> <p>If we add it up.. The Seal wasn't perfect, The GL didn't have the power to make it perfect. So She made Guardians on each planet. When Parma was annihalated, the seal was so damaged, that Elsydeon was needed to repair it.<p>Nei Weapons are to combat Dark Force..

[LaconianShot]

<blockquote>Close, but slightly off. PSI throws that off</blockquote> <br>See, a poetic sense. It's not 1000 years exactly... it's a period of 1000 years.

[PSP]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Lord Khyron</i>Corey, the Seal on Algol was never perfect. The GL made Palmans, Motavians and Dezorians on each planet to fight the evil when the seal broke. The Algo seal was never perfect. Elsydeon is the only thing that can seal the PD away.[/quote]<p>I know it was imperfect, that's what I stated before. The question is, was Elsydeon made to 'seal' the PD by literally sealing it (which seemed more of a temporary measure), or destroying it?<p>

We all know the English translation is royally screwed up, look at 2 and 3.. Misc Compendium Info..

<p>PSI-III had messed up translations, I think no one will contest that, but PSIV has never really received any complaints to my knowledge (excusing the name changes). I don't think any major plot elements were misrepresented.<p>[quote]If we add it up.. The Seal wasn't perfect, The GL didn't have the power to make it perfect. So She made Guardians on each planet. When Parma was annihalated, the seal was so damaged, that Elsydeon was needed to repair it.<p>Nei Weapons are to combat Dark Force..<br></blockquote><p>I thought they were for whitling <p>The compedium states '...the Nei series weapons and Elsydeon...", which still doesn't say to me that the Nei Sword and Elsydeon are different, simply because the Nei Sword wasn't the only weapon in the 'Nei series'. Hell, the game itself states (and yes, this is the english version) that Elsydeon is a sword passed down since ages ago. I don't know what significance that could have if it isn't meant to say "Hey, this is the sword Alis used, which Lutz/the Espers infused with magic to make the Nei Sword, which was then fortified by the souls of previous protectors to become Elsydeon." And yes, I know Myau appears in the Elsydeon flashbacks, but I always figured it was just artistic license (showing the struggles previous generations had endured to get Chaz to snap to).<p>And since Dark Force is a part of the Profound Darkness, it only makes since that a souped-up Nei Sword would be the weapon of choice for destroying the PD. It's like trying to say Noah and Lutz aren't the same person, it takes away the some of the things that tie the games together, and we know how much the developers loved tieing PSIV into the previous titles. <p>-Corey

[Siren]

Interesting. Here comes the tricky part, though...<p>How did Lutz get the Nei Sword back? I hold onto the belief that Noah was destroyed (for whatever reason you want to attribute to that; whether your reason be Megid crippled the ship or the fact that Mother Brain was likely so integrated into the ship that it could not function properly). <p>I've contributed to this debate long ago, and I've switched sides once or twice. It's very undecided...Lutz may possess the abilities to recall or locate the Nei Sword, or perhaps it was lost forever. Educate me.

[Lassic's Chllun]

Dunno. Maybe there was another Neisword?

[Kars!]

maybe he could teleport back only little object or person<br>remember? he rescued Rolf from a space explosion!<p>anyway the 1000 years-seal became weak 'cause the planet conjunction that occur every 1000 years<br>and is logical that it doesn't weaken all in a whole , but gradually while planets move