Phantasy Star Cave Message Board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHOHpN2lsno

My ironic response to all daft vegans out there.

Seriously, you all think it's unnatural for humans to eat meat? Well then that means that watching tv isn't natural, clothes aren't natural, and so forth.

Science has proven that a balanced meat diet is beneficial for humans. A hardcore vegan diet leaves you malnourished if you're not careful.

Anyroad, discuss.

No one who has half a brain claims that it's "unnatural". Humans are omnivores.

It does, however, contribute to a rather tasteless industry that, even if you don't see a problem with breeding millions of animals in order to kill and consume them and keeping them under often awful conditions, is one of the biggest sources of pollution in modern society. The famed cow farts are only part of it - there's also everything that goes with raising huge numbers of animals, such as fertilizer, which causes problems on its own.

It takes many times more energy and resources to grow enough plants to feed a cow until it's ready for slaughter than it does to grow enough to feed the people who would otherwise have eaten the cow. Yes, other forms of meat are less demanding, but they still require more resources than they put out. Oh, and this takes place in a world with limited resources, where millions of people still die of starvation each year.

As for leading to problems "if you're not careful" - so will a lot of other things, including crossing the street. The importance of not being an idiot about what you eat applies to all people, regardless of diet.

...no, I didn't watch the clip, but I somehow don't get the impression it would add anything to the discussion.

...no, I didn't watch the clip, but I somehow don't get the impression it would add anything to the discussion.

Apart from sarcastic humour you could be right.

Btw veggie farming also causes pollution and deforestation. Nice one apologist who has a uni degree. Roffle.

thepeaguy wrote:Btw veggie farming also causes pollution and deforestation. Nice one apologist who has a uni degree. Roffle.

Of course it does, but its a matter of volume... Do the numbers.

I was once recommended by a "vegan" to join their cult of hatred towards animal consumption.

I took a plastic bag out of my bag, pulled out a taco with cow meat inside it and told him: "This, I eat in your name. Now stop bothering me."

Suffice to say, he was not amused.

Oh, I am also a member of PETA.

People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

Consuming animal flesh is believed to have helped the evolution of our brains into what they are today. Eating animals is a part of what we are. Even if vegans, vegetarians or whatever say that it is unhealthy, they should check their facts twice or thrice.

WING-0 wrote:Consuming animal flesh is believed to have helped the evolution of our brains into what they are today. Eating animals is a part of what we are. Even if vegans, vegetarians or whatever say that it is unhealthy, they should check their facts twice or thrice.

...and so should meat eaters. (I am a meat eater, if anyone is interested.) Regardless of any supposed health effects, two facts remain uncontroversial, and are in themselves reason enough, I think, for one to question ones meat consumption:

• The environmental impact of industrialised meat production are much graver than those of industrialised farming. If we eat less meat and more vegetables, we can feed more people and thus distribute our limited resources more fairly. It's a simple matter of numbers.
• With industrialised meat and dairy production, those commodities are available to us in this day and age in quantities unparalleled in human history. Is it "natural" to eat meat and dairy? Yes, unquestionably. Is it "natural" to consume it in the quantities we regard as normal today? Highly unlikely.

I think it makes more sense to campaign for better and more responsible production of meat than to become a vegetarian or vegan.

BenoitRen wrote:I think it makes more sense to campaign for better and more responsible production of meat than to become a vegetarian or vegan.

+1 QFT

I think drinking milk is unnatural. I mean drinking other than own species milk. Just think about it....

BenoitRen wrote:I think it makes more sense to campaign for better and more responsible production of meat than to become a vegetarian or vegan.

You couldn't be more right.

Zucca wrote:I think drinking milk is unnatural. I mean drinking other than own species milk.

Originally humans couldn't drink cow milk at all, because it'd make them feel really bad. That we can drink it is a recent evolution. We evolve to make us like things that have things the body needs.

Not all humans have evolved to like milk. The Chinese haven't, for instance.

skymandr wrote:

thepeaguy wrote:Btw veggie farming also causes pollution and deforestation. Nice one apologist who has a uni degree. Roffle.

Of course it does, but its a matter of volume... Do the numbers.

Then you rob the livelihoods of those who are in the meat industry. You do the math.

I am aware of biomass and all that shit, but meat consumption has contributed to the brain development of us as a species for many generations. Sorry if that pisses off animal lovers, but it's true.

Why you go and pick on a tiger's moral judgment? Oh, because it's natural for him. Well, it's natural for me to kill and devour other edible life then.

The Chinese haven't, for instance.

America's secret weapon against those yellow commies. Poison the masses with milk. Genius.

thepeaguy wrote:
Then you rob the livelihoods of those who are in the meat industry. You do the math.

If the meat industry is like any other industry in the world, then it's the owners who are the worst threat to their workers, not a need for a solution.

The whole 'what about the employees' is always thrown around by rich folk trying to keep themselves rich, and while it's nice that they're not throwing everyone under them under the bus for about thirty seconds, they'll still turn right around and do it and...wait, hold on.

Remind me, the meat industry has mostly been taken over by superfarms and such, right? So there really would be no effect on the average rancher/farmer/whathaveyou beyond making them competative again?

meteor9 wrote:

thepeaguy wrote:
Then you rob the livelihoods of those who are in the meat industry. You do the math.

If the meat industry is like any other industry in the world, then it's the owners who are the worst threat to their workers, not a need for a solution.

The whole 'what about the employees' is always thrown around by rich folk trying to keep themselves rich, and while it's nice that they're not throwing everyone under them under the bus for about thirty seconds, they'll still turn right around and do it and...wait, hold on.

Remind me, the meat industry has mostly been taken over by superfarms and such, right? So there really would be no effect on the average rancher/farmer/whathaveyou beyond making them competative again?

Perhaps that thing about superfarms is correct in the UK and the US. Here in Mexico and other third world countries, the production of animal products is not handled by huge corporations. Usually, a ranch supplies most if not all of the meat of a single store. Things are smaller here. Still, even then, the procedures for the processing of the meat are careful and meticulous, not like in the US, where meat is in many cases infected with the feces because in an effort to keep a deadline, they just pull out the intestines and they rip them, letting the shit of the animal infect the edible parts.

Even pork meat is processed to a ridiculous degree of cleanliness. A good percentage of the pig meat eaten in several parts of Japan is actually produced here.

Maybe that is an advantage of this country over the US and UK.

Also, the processing of the byproducts (read: shit) is handled in a manner that leaves the least amount of damage possible by us to the environment, processing the methane gas (what makes crap smell like it does) in a way to avoid letting it go into the atmosphere and giving it an extra use, either by selling it to laboratories, companies that make use of it like making paint removers and such, etc.

And regarding intolerance to lactose, it is a mutation in the genes of Europeans that have carried over to the American continent and Oceania. Asia doesn't display that mutation much, with the Chinese being a good example of non mutant genes. I am a carrier of the gene because of my European ancestry, for example.

meteor9 wrote:

thepeaguy wrote:
Then you rob the livelihoods of those who are in the meat industry. You do the math.

If the meat industry is like any other industry in the world, then it's the owners who are the worst threat to their workers, not a need for a solution.

The whole 'what about the employees' is always thrown around by rich folk trying to keep themselves rich, and while it's nice that they're not throwing everyone under them under the bus for about thirty seconds, they'll still turn right around and do it and...wait, hold on.

Remind me, the meat industry has mostly been taken over by superfarms and such, right? So there really would be no effect on the average rancher/farmer/whathaveyou beyond making them competative again?

Come back to me when you stop your sophomoric, self-righteous undergrad routine, you silly dingo.

We're in a recession, and I'm not prepared to let them go out of business because some treehuggers said we should.

Vegans and vegetarians consume living things called plant life. They may not have a nervous system like animals do, but they practise the same principle as the meat eaters.

IndispensablePeaGuy wrote:
Come back to me when you stop your sophomoric, self-righteous undergrad routine, you silly dingo.

We're in a recession, and I'm not prepared to let them go out of business because some treehuggers said we should.

Vegans and vegetarians consume living things called plant life. They may not have a nervous system like animals do, but they practise the same principle as the meat eaters.

We're in a recession now, so therefore we should never ever attempt to do anything about a destructive industry? Man, I fucking love meat and I can still understand that at some point something has to change.

The underlying philosophy behind vegan/vegetarianism always did strike me as retarded, granted, but the anti-industry portion of it actually has some basis in reality.