PS3 Kara controversy, I need help...

[mikelp27]

I swear I'm not posting this to start any arguing, and I'm not a troll.
But I would like to pose a theory. I was wondering if anybody here had any theories on Kara? If Rhys marries Maia, then you will recruit Kara(1) with Sean or Crys in the third generation.
Now, the Kara that appears if Rhys marries Lena is vastly different from this other Kara. That Kara we will call Kara(2).

So hear me out, this is all speculation:
Kara(2) is a very pretty, healthy young lady who has vast potential, her magical abilities are decent, her HP can receive 4 points per level, she is superior to most female characters.

1. Kara(1) however, is slightly crippled (look very carefully at her movement when traveling down, she limps. She has the same body type as Mieu, who does not limp).
2. Her magical abilities are stunted to the point of retardation (they don't even twitch until level 53, and they start at a level 1 power range. You would be stupid to even consider ever using a melee technique by Kara)
3. She begins at level 50 (it says 1, but the experience required to move up to the next level is the same experience other characters will need to move to 51), yet her statistics are lower than all other characters at her level, under normal growth patterns where the player isn't interfering. Her her HP and defense are especially bad. Each level her speed, damage and defense rise by 1-3 points, making her average 2. If she went up by 2 points per level, then she should have a starting speed of 0 (it starts at 98), a starting damage of -15 (it's 83), and a starting defense of -10 (it's 88). Her HP growth is 2-4, the average should be 3. If she got 3 points per
level, her starting HP should have been -26 (it's 121). In short, the programmers gave her lowered stats. Probably by mistake. But why even start her at level 50? Why not at level 1 like Laya or Kara(2)? Why go to the effort of purposely doing that?

What the heck right?
Well, the theory goes that Kara(1) is actually the daughter of Lune and his sister Alair. If you look at her picture, she has physical features of both. There is no denying that she is the daughter of Lune, she says that she is. However, she has her mother's field body type, the same as Mieu's but with a limp. One explanation is that she is slightly crippled and slightly retarded because she is the product of incest. Unless there are other theories I don't know of. Twisted huh?

Four more lesser points:
4. This one is really far-fetched, but listen. Each character in the game generally follows this rule. They have their mother's hair. Nial, Ayn, Sean, Crys, Adan, Gywn, Aron, and Kara(1 and 2) all have their mother's hair. If Lune had married any other woman, then his daughter would probably have had to have hair exactly like hers. This theory was suggested by a friend, and I shot it down because in Nial's route, you can marry Alair and Kara(2) still has Lune's hair color. He then suggested that Kara(2)'s hair is not the same as Lune's, it is clearly somewhat curly, while Kara(1)'s hair is similar to both Lune and Alair's. So both Kara's DO have her mother's hair.
5. You are not allowed to see Lune and Alair's faces during Sean and Crys's quests. Why the heck not? You are also not allowed to see Sari's face during Sean's quest. This theory goes that the programmers did not want people to see how similar Kara(1) is to both Lune and Alair. Of course, they may have just been lazy.
6. Point six is this: Where the hell is Lune's wife? Especially in Sean or Crys's quest? Where is she in Aron and Adan's quest? Does she even exist? If Nial marries Alair, it will say that Lune married, but she still doesn't even appear.
7. Point seven is weak, but here it is. Why are there two different Kara's? Why not just keep them all the same? Because in Nial's quest, Nial clearly saves Lune from a pointless revenge, thus aiding him on his road to happiness and recovery. The people of the Alisa III forgive Lune, and he is allowed to visit the Alisa III and falls in love with some lady and has Kara(2). He leads a happy life. In Ayn's quest however, nobody stops him. He continues his pointless rampage and is continually despised by the people of Alisa III. In other words, it was just him and his sister Alair, all alone and unloved, living in the satallite Dahlia. When Sean or Crys visit him, the guard down below mentions that you should be warned, because Lune is very depressed, but he does not say why. Probably because of a very unfortunate mistake.

This all started when I noticed that Ayn can marry his second cousin Thea. That started a whole "who's related to who" battle with my friends.
I know this is all ridiculous, but If anyone would care to confirm or disprove this theory, It would be appreciated, this has been bugging me ever since I played the game. Thanks.

[LegoMuskCat]

Dear lord, I do not agree with this at all! D:

1. Kara(1) however, is slightly crippled (look very carefully at her movement when traveling down, she limps. She has the same body type as Mieu, who does not limp).

Gee, maybe if the game was finished, the sprite would also be finished. Besides, Kara is actually using Alair's sprite -- not one of her own. Look at the character artwork, you'll see what I mean.

2. Her magical abilities are stunted to the point of retardation (they don't even twitch until level 53, and they start at a level 1 power range. You would be stupid to even consider ever using a melee technique by Kara)

Hey now, don't flail around the whole "retardation" thing, as I consider that offensive.

You do realise, this is the same case with Gwyn, Adan's twin sister. Her tech levels hardly grow.

3. She begins at level 50 (it says 1, but the experience required to move up to the next level is the same experience other characters will need to move to 51), yet her statistics are lower than all other characters at her level, under normal growth patterns where the player isn't interfering. Her her HP and defense are especially bad. Each level her speed, damage and defense rise by 1-3 points, making her average 2. If she went up by 2 points per level, then she should have a starting speed of 0 (it starts at 98), a starting damage of -15 (it's 83), and a starting defense of -10 (it's 88). Her HP growth is 2-4, the average should be 3. If she got 3 points per
level, her starting HP should have been -26 (it's 121). In short, the programmers gave her lowered stats. Probably by mistake. But why even start her at level 50? Why not at level 1 like Laya or Kara(2)? Why go to the effort of purposely doing that?

This is a case of the game being rushed. Things really aren't balanced properly, so of course there are characters that suffer from this in more than one way.

Well, the theory goes that Kara(1) is actually the daughter of Lune and his sister Alair. If you look at her picture, she has physical features of both. There is no denying that she is the daughter of Lune, she says that she is.

Wow. Just... No, that's pretty messed up. Kara doesn't look much like Alair, in my opinion, but I must say that this's the most *ed up theory I've read.

However, she has her mother's field body type, the same as Mieu's but with a limp. One explanation is that she is slightly crippled and slightly retarded because she is the product of incest. Unless there are other theories I don't know of. Twisted huh?

Again, most sprites in this game are re-used. Very few characters have their own unique graphic, as most are simply recolors.

As I said before...the sprite isn't finished. Hell, Lune's sprite only has one frame and never moves.

4. This one is really far-fetched, but listen. Each character in the game generally follows this rule. They have their mother's hair. Nial, Ayn, Sean, Crys, Adan, Gywn, Aron, and Kara(1 and 2) all have their mother's hair.

Nope, This isn't true. It seems that the case here is that characters have the hair color of their parent purely for familiarity. Thea has green hair, like her father Lyle, as both Karas have Lune's hair color.

Now, the exception to the hair thing is Crys, as he doesn't have his mother's hair. His hair is like a mixture of both Ayn's and Sari's, though if you look at how nice and tan he is, one could assume that the sun lightened it.

If Lune had married any other woman, then his daughter would probably have had to have hair exactly like hers. This theory was suggested by a friend, and I shot it down because in Nial's route, you can marry Alair and Kara(2) still has Lune's hair color. He then suggested that Kara(2)'s hair is not the same as Lune's, it is clearly somewhat curly, while Kara(1)'s hair is similar to both Lune and Alair's. So both Kara's DO have her mother's hair.

Thea may have Lyle's hair color, but the texture of hers is curly.

I still disagree; both Karas have their father's pretty hair.

5. You are not allowed to see Lune and Alair's faces during Sean and Crys's quests. Why the heck not? You are also not allowed to see Sari's face during Sean's quest. This theory goes that the programmers did not want people to see how similar Kara(1) is to both Lune and Alair. Of course, they may have just been lazy.

Yep, those lazy programmers!

6. Point six is this: Where the hell is Lune's wife? Especially in Sean or Crys's quest? Where is she in Aron and Adan's quest? Does she even exist? If Nial marries Alair, it will say that Lune married, but she still doesn't even appear.

It can be safe to assume that Kara's mother is dead, perhaps from childbirth or illness (I assume this for Nial's path, check out the Thea theory, but I don't fully agree with this either as there are holes).

7. Point seven is weak, but here it is. Why are there two different Kara's? Why not just keep them all the same? Because in Nial's quest, Nial clearly saves Lune from a pointless revenge, thus aiding him on his road to happiness and recovery. The people of the Alisa III forgive Lune, and he is allowed to visit the Alisa III and falls in love with some lady and has Kara(2). He leads a happy life.

Not that far off, in my opinion. I've always thought that it was cool that there are two versions of the Dahlian princess, as it goes to show how one simply decision in the beginning of the game shape the future of the Alisa III and everyone aboard it (satellites included!).

But yeah, Nial didn't necessarily save Lune, as he saved Lune's little sister. Nial just stopped the war that Lune was pursuing.

In Ayn's quest however, nobody stops him. He continues his pointless rampage and is continually despised by the people of Alisa III. In other words, it was just him and his sister Alair, all alone and unloved, living in the satallite Dahlia. When Sean or Crys visit him, the guard down below mentions that you should be warned, because Lune is very depressed, but he does not say why. Probably because of a very unfortunate mistake.

I doubt that everyone necessarily despised him and Alair. The Orakians did, I'm sure, but you'd think that Layans would support him (besides the rebel faction who were against him).


My belief on the matter? Both Karas have different mothers. This much, I agree with. However, I believe the Thea theory to be correct to some extent, and so I think that Thea could be Kara's mother in Nial's time. As for the Kara of Ayn's time, I simply believe that Lune took a Layan wife, though we may not know where she comes from or who she is.

It's a simple answer, but there's my two cents on the matter.

[Dorrinal]

I agree with Tsu on her points. Call me unobservant but I never noticed any weird limping or other problems with Kara's movement. Her usefulness in the party is questionable, for sure. What were they thinking by making "bad Kara" so weak, instead of a third-generation Sari?

Both versions of Sari are "good"

[BenoitRen]

I did note her limping. She only limps when walking south, though.

For a Layan, her Technique ability is quite mediocre, indeed. Too bad her other stats don't make up for it at all. Clearly she tried to be an Orakian.

[Dorrinal]

Another observation I had is that "good Kara" is only useful to Adan. Laya is the best healbot for the other third-generation characters. Poor design all around, in my opinion.

[mikelp27]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Especially Tsu. Again, it's just a theory, I DON"T want to ruin anyone's enjoyment of one of my personal favorite games.
Kara's character in general just didn't sit well with me. I thought that perhaps the programmers were being really in-depth, and wanted to see if anyone noticed. I was sort of hoping that there was some story line behind the scenes about all the characters that would provide geneology for other characters besides the main ones.

However, what's this about Thea being Kara(2)'s mother? Never heard that one, but it's kind of cool.

[mikelp27]

I just read the Thea Theory. It's cool, and it gives Ryan (a severely underrated character) some background.
Also, I would like to point out by way of apology that Kara(1) is in fact my favorite PS3 character (besides Wren), and so I don't hope to slander her or anything. I'm hoping that someone can PROVE that the theory is wrong. Thanks again.

[LegoMuskCat]

Hey, it's no problem. I also like her character as well.

Kara's character in general just didn't sit well with me. I thought that perhaps the programmers were being really in-depth, and wanted to see if anyone noticed. I was sort of hoping that there was some story line behind the scenes about all the characters that would provide geneology for other characters besides the main ones.

Well, there's depth when it comes to other things in the game's story, but there's not much as far as the 3rd generation goes, in my opinion.

However, what's this about Thea being Kara(2)'s mother? Never heard that one, but it's kind of cool.

It's a theory that was, as far as I know, was first put out there by Neilast. As I said, I don't completely agree with it, though some points are valid.

I'm hoping that someone can PROVE that the theory is wrong. Thanks again.

I highly doubt that the people makin' PSIII had the idea in mind that warrior Kara would've been the result of incest. Sure, feel free to use your imagination, but I still think that her mother was a Layan from somewhere on the Alisa III (there are other Layan settlements other than Cille and Shusoran, y'know).

[Larkin]

I've got to be honest, that was one of the most imaginatively fantastic theories i've read in a bloody long time. I enjoyed reading it.

I couldn't get into Ps3 as much as the others and only really rushed through each scenario and called it quits a few years back on GBA. I never noticed the limp you mentioned, but I'm now gonna play through the game once more to see it, and hopefully catch the plot this time.

Thanks

[Dorrinal]

Tsu, what don't you like about the Thea theories?

[LegoMuskCat]

Tsu, what don't you like about the Thea theories?

The main thing that comes to mind tha I disagree with is the suggestion that Ryan is from Endora, or that he's the same man who tried to save Thea in Ayn's time but failed. If Ryan had the power to transform into a dragon and was able to do this during Nial's time, then how could he be "not be strong enough" to do it on his own during Ayn's time? It makes no sense.

Also...the gems are obviously needed to get from dome to dome. How the hell could Ryan leave Draconia without the Dragon's Tear (which is in Lyle's possession...)?

[Lord Khyron]

The odd thing is.. In japanese PS 3, Lyle stole the Twins Ruby from the Cyborgs..

There is one problem with the Thea Theories anyways.. Why does it have to be Thea that is kidnapped? Without Rhys to marry Maia, what if it was Maia that was kidnapped?

Lyle would run to Maia's rescue like he did for Rhys. Maybe instead of THEA, Lyle had a son named RYAN.

Ryan then went to save Maia.

It is a possibiility.

[LegoMuskCat]

Ryan is 35 years old according to Japanese sources (meaning he's roughly 15 years older than Ayn/Nial). And I am aware that Lyle stolen the Twins' Ruby, which would explain how he got into Landen. Interesting how they leave these details out of the english translation, no?

[Lord Khyron]

Mm.. Maybe Lyle's brother then?

See.. without Rhys marrying Maia, I don't think Siren's attack would be as severe.

Maia would be kidnapped instead.

[Dorrinal]

Tsu, what don't you like about the Thea theories?

The main thing that comes to mind tha I disagree with is the suggestion that Ryan is from Endora, or that he's the same man who tried to save Thea in Ayn's time but failed. If Ryan had the power to transform into a dragon and was able to do this during Nial's time, then how could he be "not be strong enough" to do it on his own during Ayn's time? It makes no sense.

It could be Rhys' presence in Landen affected Lune's advance or Ryan's upbringing somehow. A stretch, but a possibility.

Also...the gems are obviously needed to get from dome to dome. How the hell could Ryan leave Draconia without the Dragon's Tear (which is in Lyle's possession...)?

You have a good point about dome travel. And check out this quote from some of the Layan rebels:

- Lune's army is looking for something in Aridia. We want to go to Aridia, but we don't know how. Maybe the Twins' Ruby can get us there.

I'm not sure Ryan has ever been out of Aerone, or how he came into possession of the Twin's Ruby. It might still have something to do with Lyle and/or Thea, though.