Post what's on your mind now

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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Black Sword » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:13 pm

BenoitRen wrote:
Black Sword wrote:Be nice to the Jews.

I will if they start being nice to the Palestinians they stole ground from.


1) Israel received a designated area by treaty and international law
2) The Arab nations around Israel broke that treaty minutes after Israel was born
3) Israel kicked their asses and took that land by right of war
4) It's hard to be nice when your neighbors are trying to kill you
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Postby BenoitRen » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:01 pm

It's correct that Israel was attacked, and that they took over land the enemy used against them strategically. However, when they wanted more land to build more settlements, they took it from the Palestinians by force. Why do you think there's controversy between those two countries about Gaza, while the other countries are minding their own business?
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Postby Wing-0 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:38 pm

In that area of the world, no side is without responsibility...
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Black Sword » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:39 am

Palestine isn't a country, for one. For two, it's annoying having a proxy war with your neighbors, and you can't even properly neutralize the proxy because they'll play the victim card.
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Postby BenoitRen » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:01 pm

It doesn't matter if Palestine isn't a country. The fact is that it didn't belong to Israel, and they took it by force.
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Zucca » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:45 pm

If you have somehow missed Machete (like I did), then watch it now!

Splatter, guns and (bare) girls. Oh and one angry Mexican.

We (me+gf) just watched it. I think it's one of the best movies of 2010.
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Wing-0 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:51 pm

worried. my cat hasn't been eating and is feeding five kittens. i looked for answers online, but no good. ideas?
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Black Sword » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:22 pm

Zucca wrote:If you have somehow missed Machete (like I did), then watch it now!

Splatter, guns and (bare) girls. Oh and one angry Mexican.

We (me+gf) just watched it. I think it's one of the best movies of 2010.


I didn't know WING-0 starred in a movie.

WING, you should probably prepare a sieve or rag dipped in honeyed water or milk and see if she tries to suckle it herself. If not, you may be bottle feeding her. Liquids go down easier than solids, and her choices are spit or swallow.
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Postby Wing-0 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:48 am

Took my cat to the vet. She's mostly healthy but malnourished. We all thought she was sick or something, but the vet then asked me... "Where did you keep it?" I just answered "Inside, but when she started giving birth, they ordered me to put her outside." She gave me a different type of food and told me to supervise her. I then thought if the reason she isn't eating is because of the place. I grabbed the kittens (not with my hands) and placed them inside my room, under a table, where she loved to sleep at. I'll see if she recovers. So far, she's drinking water and ate a bit more a few minutes ago.

Wonderful... I was wondering why this comment I wrote more than two days ago wasn't showing... I must have "saved it as a draft". Yay me...

The root of the problem is that Europeans drew the maps there after World War 2. Then, the EUROPEAN Jews, soon to be called Israelis back then, entered the area with European support. There were Muslims, Jews, Christians and other varieties already living in peace with one another, but soon the Europeans were claiming land like it belonged to them since a the time of antiquity. Violence erupted and it hasn't stopped ever since.

I can say that I feel a tremendous sadness towards both sides because of the carnage they have unleashed upon one another instead of seeking a peaceful solution after all these years.

You know who else got fraked thanks to European meddling? The Kurds. Their land, Kurdistan (Literally: Land of the Kurds), got split between Iran, Irak, Turkey, Syria and Armenia. Nobody asked them if they wanted that. They are said to not have been present during that time when they were drawing the lines, but OH FRAK, dude! If you're going to draw a line on piece of land to make a country, by common sense you go and see if someone already lives there!

That European meddling is in a large part what is responsible for having that area as a nitroglicerin jar. Yet, worse than that is that neither side has succeeded in halting that fraked cycle of killing one another.
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Postby BenoitRen » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:42 pm

From what I've been told, the Brits were in control of the ground that was given to the Jews. There was no one living there at the time.
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Postby Wing-0 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:38 pm

I'm talking about the general area, not to the one the European Jews were given. The mess erupted thanks to European meddling.
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Tanith » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:12 am

If we're talking about meddling and the Middle East, don't forget about Operation Ajax, which kicked Mohammad Mosaddegh out from leadership in Iran in 1953. It was carried out by the CIA at the request of the British government. Yeah, it was a huge help to overthrow a secular Prime Minister and give more power to the Shah, only to have a revolution some 20 years later and have the entire government replaced by a radical Shia republic. Good job, guys! *rolls eyes*
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Black Sword » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:53 pm

Correcting WING-0's history since it's a far more complicated than that. There's always been a strong Zionist sentiment in the Western world, thanks to our Christian roots. Britain issued the Barfour Declaration supporting the creation of a Jewish state during World War I, which was admittedly a political measure aimed at weakening the Ottoman Empire, but was still popular in the West. Jewish volunteers fought for Britain in the Middle East and did Britain's dirty work in the Palestine campaign. The Barfour Declaration was then supported by mandate from the League of Nations (and eventually the United Nations).

The Arabs opposed the plans and rioted, but the funny part is, asking any of them with a sense of honesty and they'll admit that Palestine was a major shithole before the Jews began to arrive, and improved as those same Jews vigorously applied knowledge the Arabs lacked to make the place far better. Anyway, the British did nothing when the Arabs began their modern hobby of killing Jews, so the Jews formed milita to defend themselves with. Historians on both sides grudgingly agree that when Arabs weren't playing at slaughter, both sides managed to live side by side as neighbors.

Right before Hitler launched World War II, the British closed Palestine to Jewish immigration. Why? The Arabs had revolted because Jewish refugees of Hitler's persecution thought the Palestine province would be safe and had been arriving in large waves. Arab farmers sold their lands to Jewish settlers at market prices and then moved into cities where they could not find work. I cannot emphasize the bolded part enough. At that time, no one was forced off the land. Britain would never have allowed such a breach, Barfour or no. Anyway, the Arab former-farmers blamed the Jews for their newfound poverty, to the point where Britian passed a law forbidding the Arabs to sell land to Jews just so they'd shut up... a law they didn't bother to enforce. The revolt was put down thanks to cooperation between British forces and Jewish militia. Obviously, the militia felt betrayed when, after spilling their blood for the British, their colonial masters promptly engaged in what could be called a betrayal.

During and after the war, British policy towards refugees seeking shelter in Israel was to round them up in camps (oh, irony) or turn them away, increasing the bad blood between the Jewish settlers, the Arabs, and the British. Once World War II ended, Britain said "fuck it" and asked the new UN to figure it out. UN came up with a resolution for two states, one Jewish, one Arab. Jewish state would get the crappiest land, land everyone knew was incapable of supporting the sort of numbers everyone expected to flood into that state, while the Arabs got the best arable land. Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.

What happened from there? The Jews said yes. They had gotten the short end of the stick, but it was far better than they could have prayed for from their British overlords. The Arabs said...no. Then Arab bands went to work in earnest. The Jews were on the defensive for quite some time before they turned the tide and absolutely broke the local Arab forces. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs left under the orders of their local leaders and fear of the conflict. Their cousins in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon massed their armies outside of Palestine even as they deliberately sent units into what was technically still British territory.

The day before the British mandate expired, Israel declared independence. The day after independence was declared, the armies outside the borders entered Israel. Outnumbered, outgunned, and out-everything, Israel beat all of them into the ground. What followed was the mass exodus of Jews from the Arab world into Israel as their former neighbors vented their defeat on the nearest helpless Jews, and the ongoing efforts to destroy Israel, not least of which include the Six-Day War, the Yom Kippur War, and the proxies of Hamas, Hizbollah, and the so-called Palestinians.

I have zero sympathy for Palestinians. They were given plenty of opportunity for a peaceful solution in the past sixty years, before the start of any conflict. They've brought it all on themselves. Britain has its fair share of blame, since they should have chosen a side and stuck with it, but the Arab world has had plenty of time to integrate the Palestinians into the populations. Instead, they're kept in camps as a convenient excuse to fight Israel. There won't be any peace because our Israeli friends are aware how tenuous their survival is, and won't do anything that threatens that survival, especially after years of greater and greater concessions just result in more mortars, rockets, and "wasn't me" from their neighbors.

As to the Kurds, they did get screwed, but not the way you understand it. There was supposed to be a Kurdistan and Armenia after World War I. Turkey was going to be a rump state. However, Ataturk was too good a general. He reconquered the land Turkey would have lost, and the Allies were too exhausted to fight it out with someone most of their generals couldn't match, so a different treaty was signed. As Brennus told the Romans, vae victis.

As for Iran, Mosaddegh nationalized British oil concerns without paying anything and was friendly with the local Soviet stooge party. Besides, Mosaddegh was a prick of the first order, to the point where Dwight Eisenhower loathed him enough to write angrily about the Iranian prime minister in his memoirs. Anyway, the first pissed off Britain, who then mentioned the second item to their American little brothers, who were duly pissed off in turn. Mosaddegh declared Britain an enemy of Iran and cut off all diplomatic ties. Britain turned to the Americans, eyebrow upraised, and both went to work. Down went Mosaddegh, the Shah was restored, and Mosaddegh under house arrest. Unfortunately, the Shah was too ambitious, thus overspent, thus Iranian Revolution.

Why do I know all this? How do you guys think I got my history degree? I had to write about the Iranian Revolution for my thesis.
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Postby Wing-0 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:23 am

I still think there is bias to that. Israel is too trigger happy as they demonstrated when they boarded the convoy aimed at delivering stuff to the gaza strip. Not like Palestine is any better, though.

Anyway, I was talking to a friend of mine earlier. He was telling me a friend of his recently got married... To a man we both know... Oh, crap, is she in for a bad ride... The guy is a total wreck. Alcohol? Check. Gambling? Check. Penal records? Check!

OH, CRAP...
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Re: Post what's on your mind now

Postby Black Sword » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:34 pm

History doesn't have a golden mean. Favoring the underdog is a nice sentiment, but you work with the facts. Those facts damn the Muslim world much more thoroughly than their Israeli counterparts. Anyway, Gaza is under legal blockade. The convoy was attempting to run a legal blockade. They were told to stand down for inspection and refused. Israeli commandos attempted to board and got greeted with baseball bats, hatchets, and knives. The surrounded commandos forced their way out, resulting in nine dead. Unfortunately, the West likes to treat Israel like a red-headed stepchild, so the only thing anyone ever hears is the "ISRAEL ATTACKED A CONVOY THOSE EVIL BASTARDS."

My apologies for your friend. For your due busting of chops, if you're so worried about her, why didn't you marry her, then? =p
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