Are autistics really Neanderthals?

[ThePeaGuy]

This topic is for anyone here who has a vast interest in human biology and evolution. If you clearly have no interest in this topic, then please don't bother posting in unwanted spam.<br> <br>I don't know if anybody has heard of this before already, but some theories I've read online speculate that human disorders like ADD and Autism are behavioural traits from the supposedly extinct sub-species of Homo Sapiens, Homo Neanderthalensis.<p>Here's a webpage that discusses this theory:<p>http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm<p>Has anybody here read theories like this, and do you find that they are concrete or just plain bs?<p><p>[size=small][Edit by ThePeaGuy on [TIME]1110414237[/TIME]][/size]

[Malakai]

I don't believe much in these theories. There is no imperical evidence found yet that solidly links their so-called claims and research finds together. It's all specualtion. Now, I could profound upon this and put up links and explain my thinking, but let it rest that I trust these ideas about as far as I could throw Fat Albert.

[ROMeo]

I find it most interesting that the autism gene's age matches the neanderthal selection genes', as well as the fact that similar disorders are more common in the people of those countries where the neanderthal left his mark.<p>With this I'm not saying I'm in any position to either vouch for or refute the theory as I'm not competent in the field, but I find it interesting.

[ThePeaGuy]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by ROMeo</i><p>I find it most interesting that the autism gene's age matches the neanderthal selection genes', as well as the fact that similar disorders are more common in the people of those countries where the neanderthal left his mark.<p>With this I'm not saying I'm in any position to either vouch for or refute the theory as I'm not competent in the field, but I find it interesting. <br></blockquote><p>To be perfectly honest, I'm not competent in the field of biology either. However, the only person around here who is competent is probably Monocromatico. I wonder what he's got to say regarding this topic? He could probably teach me a thing or two about human evolution... again. <p><p>[size=small][Edit by ThePeaGuy on [TIME]1110414280[/TIME]][/size]

[LaconianShot]

I'm no where near to competent in Biology, but to be honest, I wouldn't lend a lot of credibility to that theory.

[Lord Khyron]

I'm competent in Historical geology..<p>

[ghost_stalker]

I dont believe in that theory myself but I do believe that certain mutated Homo-Sapien genes can resemble that of extinct human like creatures such as Homo Neanderthalensis.

[Lord Khyron]

We could take the story of the A. Robustus and the A. Afarensis..<p>A. Robustus had small brains, and no opposeable thumbs. Yet they created tools and were more advanced than A.A. They were smart enough to know what tools were and how to make them, Yet couldn't use them efficiently with the non opposeable thumbs. <p>A.R. Could be considered the mentally deficient ancestors to humans.. You could call them autistic because Autistics don't relate well to others or know how to handle emotions.. A.R. didn't know how to relate to tools or handle them. <p>A.R. died out.. No one knows why they died out. <p>A.A. Had large brains, opposeable thumbs and never made tools, yet they survived longer than the A. Robustus. They survived without tools. They had intelligence, but not enough to make or use tools. Yet they survived..<p>The A.A. survived long enough to pass it's genes on to the next stage, the true ancestors to humans. <p>P.S. I may have mispelled the A.A. group. I never was good with Homonid spellings, But I can get the geologic time scale spelt right..

[Monocromatico]

It´s impossible that we would have inherited anything from Neanderthals, as they are not our ancestors, but only a sister group. If we share something in common, it´s because we shared the same ancestor, the archaic Homo sapiens.

[Lord Khyron]

The Afarensis were our ancestors, if I remember my historical geology from 1998 correctly..<p>The other branches died out. <p>The Opposeable thumb was a key evolutionary feature, it enabled easier survival. <p>Imagine using a hammer or a tool without the opposeable thumb!<p>Now Mono.. How old do you think the earth is?<p>3.7 billion years or 4.3?<p>Did they ever solve that debate? I like the Nautiloids

[Monocromatico]

I have to base my position by by explaining a thing or two:<p>The part of science destined to define the relationships between species is called phylogeny. Modern phylogenists use the genes instead of variable physical characteristics to determine the similarities between the species in question. From 10 years ago and nowadays, mollecular phylogeny (the method using genes) has revealed itself as the most exact and efficient way to determine those relationships.<p>Now, molecular data can be obtained only from living beings, or dead bodies that didn´t suffer much decomposition nor fossilization process. It´s impossible to get useable gene sequences from fossiles, even those that are "only" a few tens of thousands of years old. I can´t really tell if there is any gene sample of Homo neanderthalensis available, but if there is, it would be too much damaged to be seriously used in a phylogeny. If you see something like that, don´t believe it without questioning... there are a lot of unresposible scientists out there that will publish rubbish works with supposedly great results just to have publicity - and atract sponsors.<p>That said, the safest way to state that Neanderthals are not ancestors to modern H. sapiens is by fossile evidences. By the time the first modern H. sapiens´ fossile appears, the Neanderthals occupied a vast region between western Europe and China. The problem is, modern H. sapiens first appeared probably in South Africa, or, pushing it a bit hard to the north, Ethiopia... far from the Neanderthal territory. Contemporary to both species, there was the called "archaic" H. sapiens, a primitive species (or subspecies, they can´t decide it) that lived pretty most everywhere in Africa, Eurasia and a few islands of the Indonesian archipelago. That primitive species originated in different moments both H. neanderthalensis and modern H. sapiens, and then got extinct. <p>Now they talk about hybridizations... I don´t have much to say besides that the chances of two animal species being able to produce a hybrid is incredibly small. Basing such statements on that is, at least, not a very wise move. No to mention that they are not considering that most modern europeans were not living there in pre-history, but migrated in huge migratory waves from central Asia between 1500 b.C. and 600 a.D., so having no relation of those supposedly hybrids that would be so physically rude to a modern human´s eyes that I doubt they would ever mix without extreme necessity.<p>So, it´s not possible that we could have gotten anything from Neanderthals. Associating a mental disorder as something got from a primitive species sounds like racial superiority phylosophy to me ("you are primitive, and therefore we are better than you")

[Monocromatico]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Lord Khyron</i><p>The Afarensis were our ancestors, if I remember my historical geology from 1998 correctly..<p>The other branches died out. <p>The Opposeable thumb was a key evolutionary feature, it enabled easier survival. <p>Imagine using a hammer or a tool without the opposeable thumb!<p>Now Mono.. How old do you think the earth is?<p>3.7 billion years or 4.3?<p>Did they ever solve that debate? I like the Nautiloids <br></blockquote><p>I don´t know, I slept in my Geology classes :^P<p>Our lineage descends from A. afarensis, passing by H. habilis, H. erectus, "archaic" H. sapiens and us. There are many extinct branches originated from this or that point of the chain, none of them having direct relationship with us, including our Neanderthal friends.

[Lord Khyron]

Yes, I agree the A. Afarensis is our ancestors..<p>Opposeable thumb is a key evolutionary feature.<p>

[Arkhan]

Im not competent in Biology...I'm a computer nerd........but.....<p>If thats a trait from neanderthals........wouldnt that mean that every neanderthal was mentally challenged...?....that seems a little warped to me.....they just weren't as civilized.....<p>Maybe the brain evolution did hide some recessive traits that result in that primitive behavior.........and they sometimes dominate in someones genes.......and cause the same characteristics.....<p>But I thought Autism just effected the parts of the brain that stimulate learning etc........I find it kinda hard to believe all the Neanderthals were mentally slow.......they.....did discover fire, ....and all the art and stuff that most of us couldnt do if we had to.......