The Wii is awesome.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

I recently purchased a copy of LoZ: TP for £22 -- £6 less than what my friend paid for at a local video-games shop. I rule.

I'll probably write out a review after playing enough of TP. Right now, I plan to write out a review expressing my "love" and "admiration" for Final Fantasy XII.

Yeah right.

[Neo48]

Hmm, the Wii. Hasn't captivated me enough to start going all out on it. LoZ is great, and doing everything yourself (aiming, swinging) is fresh.

However...I don't like the direction Nintendo is taking the Wii. Keeping it's online safe for the kidies, and dumbing down it's games so that anyone can play. I'm all for universal accesibility, but c'mon! I never died against a single boss in Twilight Princess. I'm not even sure if the second form of that water temple boss even had any attacks!

Whether this is for accessibility or not, it is something that is being seen in many places. Simple control movements that require little (if not any) thinking at all.

The online mode is another thing. I guess we know why it is so safe, Nintendo is worried about all the swearing, and bad language, and hurtful things people can say over the "evil internet". All those things that made X-Box live go down the drain. Oh wait...that never happened. Nintendo's fear of th immature gamer is putting a damper on those of us that would like to communicate freely with people in a good game of Mario strikers, or a match of Smash Bros Brawl, or other games that could benefit from free speech, such as Battalian Wars 2 perhaps. Not only is the lack of voice hindered, but as we have seen from The SSBB website announcing Wi-Fi, oversea play will lag. Which could explain why this isn't an option in Mario Strikers. Also, a game like SSBB will get the upmost care from Nintendo, so the fact that oversea matches lag shows that Nintendo's hardware may be lacking.

Ah yes, while we speak of hardware, lets talk about the Wii. "Slightly more powerful than the Xbox". Woah, thats...cool...maybe? So what is the reason here? Again, the focus on accessibility I suppose. Cheapen the system by making it less powerful so all the parents who here good things in the news about the Wii being a "family console" will be happy to find that it costs a couple hundred dollars cheaper than an Xbox 360. Bonus right? So now it comes time for the family to play together. 3 Wii-motes later with nunchuks and a couple "family games", and you've just spent more than an Elite Xbox 360, with Halo, and a few months Xbox Live. Imagine that.

See what I am getting at? Nintendo's drive towards making the console more accessible, in combonation with it's media charm (and I am not kidding, Nintendo's marketing of this thing is phenomonal, they have been smart about it, so I must give them that), has created a sensation that is possibly the worst deal the hardcore gamer has ever came across.

Can I really complain that much though? I guess its a double-edged sword at this point. Not even a year into it's life, there is lots of rom for improvement, and the Wii's capability to accept firmware updates could improve some characteristics of the console. More difficult games may arrise, from tie to time. The only issue is, the developers have to take a chance on making a game that is either difficult to comprehend for someone who hasn't gamed all their life, or is too much of an abstact away from family orientation (kudos to you Suda 51 for showing some balls). Because right now, any developer that makes an easy to play family game will sell copies, whether review sites give it a bad grade or good grade. And when profit becomes the focus, the things that most of us love about the games of the past becomes a lost focus.

[BenoitRen]

The Wii, on the other hand, literally is an overclocked Gamecube (note: overclocked, not upgraded). That's why it's 100% backwards compatible, and also why it's graphical prowess is no better than the last generation.

Absolute bullshit.

The GameCube's CPU is a custom IBM single-core PowerPC-based one, code-named Gekko. The Wii's CPU is an IBM dual-core PowerPC-based one, code-named Broadway. It's the little brother of the XBox 360's and the PS3's Cell CPUs.

The Wii has the same kind of RAM as the GameCube, but more.

The Wii's graphics chipset has a much improved graphics engine.

The motherboard is entirely new.

BTW, motion sensing isn't Nintendo's baby. Atari's "Le Stick" was motion sensing over 20 years ago. If you wanna accuse someone of ripping someone else off, at least get the right progenitor.

You know what I meant. We all know that the SIXAXIS was pushed into the PS3 late in the game as a response to the Wii's motion sensing capabilities.

The PS3, on the other hand, offers a multitude of things. From a technical standpoint, it's truly a magnificent machine. The Cell architecture could allow a developer with the right motivation and patience (like Hideo Kojima, who has gone on about how MSG4 would only be possible on the PS3) to design and program a truly amazing AI. The Cell's architecture allows the right software engineering team to create an incredibly immersive experience by dedicating certain elements to individual SPE's.

Which doesn't matter one bit if the developers have much trouble coding for it. The fact is that on the PS3 they have to make much more of an effort to achieve the same result as something that is easily done on the XBox 360. The PS3 has slowdown with is core-satellite communication. Don't be so quick to blame the developers.

To address the main argument, though, 'power' in itself is not innovative. At all. Never mind that the XBox 360 and the Wii have a similar architecture. They're all from the same family. You just hype this Cell CPU because Sony does. They were thrilled to be the only one offering a multi-core CPU for the next-gen. Until suddenly Microsoft showed up with a multi-core CPU of their own from the same family. But that's another story I don't remember all of clearly.

And really, immersive experiences don't necessarily require tons of processing power. Chrono Trigger was an immersive game, and that ran on a CPU that was the last of an inferior family (CMOS), which was set at almost 3 Mhz, the speed of the motherboard.

Yeah, I've played a lot of games for the Wii. They're fun, and are as good looking as Gamecube games, if not a little bit more polished (this is the way it seems to me, but I'm not sure if the Wii is technically any more powerful than the GC). However, once one looks at the graphics that the PS3 and XB360 are churning out, one gets a little discontent.

Most third-party titles are rushed GameCube conversions. Hence not showing the Wii's potential. Look at Metroid Prime 3 for a good example of what the Wii can do.

However...I don't like the direction Nintendo is taking the Wii. Keeping it's online safe for the kidies, and dumbing down it's games so that anyone can play. I'm all for universal accesibility, but c'mon! I never died against a single boss in Twilight Princess. I'm not even sure if the second form of that water temple boss even had any attacks!

Your post is the now-classic "Nintendo lets down the hardcore gamers!" argument. Please. Nintendo offers both casual games and hardcore games, and that's not going to change.

Come on, Legend of Zelda in 3D has always had rather easy bosses.

The online mode is another thing. I guess we know why it is so safe, Nintendo is worried about all the swearing, and bad language, and hurtful things people can say over the "evil internet". All those things that made X-Box live go down the drain. Oh wait...that never happened.

Let's get one thing straight. Online lobbies suck. Go to any game forum and you're bound to find people complaining about how people are jackasses online. I'm not saying Nintendo's system is ideal, but it certainly gets rid of this plague. If you want to play with someone, you exchange friend codes. It's easy.

Sure, XBox Live never went down, but for many people it's an uneasy place to be at.

Ah yes, while we speak of hardware, lets talk about the Wii. "Slightly more powerful than the Xbox". Woah, thats...cool...maybe?

Who cares? It's all about the games.

3 Wii-motes later with nunchuks and a couple "family games", and you've just spent more than an Elite Xbox 360, with Halo, and a few months Xbox Live. Imagine that.

Hardly a good comparison since you're including a couple games on the Wii side. Also, your XBox 360 doesn't enable you to game with your family. So the comparison really isn't fair.

[Neo48]

Your post is the now-classic "Nintendo lets down the hardcore gamers!" argument. Please. Nintendo offers both casual games and hardcore games, and that's not going to change.

Come on, Legend of Zelda in 3D has always had rather easy bosses.

Classic it may be, but justifyable. The quality of current "hardcore" games hasn't been close to par. You said it yourself how many third parties have "rushed" into the Wii with the addition of motion control schemes. This is letting the hardcore gamer down. Perhaps it was for cashi-in on the hype, or maybe developers were a bit too excited. it may even have to do with laziness because to make a multi console game these days may cost more than it will sell. Perhaps I should have specified that Nintendo's quality of its franchises has been good (LoZ, metroid). But why shouldn't it be, they built the damn thing. However, I still stand by Twilight Princess bosses being too easy.

Let's get one thing straight. Online lobbies suck. Go to any game forum and you're bound to find people complaining about how people are jackasses online. I'm not saying Nintendo's system is ideal, but it certainly gets rid of this plague. If you want to play with someone, you exchange friend codes. It's easy.

Sure, XBox Live never went down, but for many people it's an uneasy place to be at.

An opinionated response, although I would agree. Those people who complain are usually the ones who let it bother them. I'm not a fan of lobbies either, but I am asking for at least the ability to perform tasks such as free communication with people on your friend lists.

Who cares? It's all about the games.

Hardware isn't just graphics. It can be things such as physics engines, real-time environmental control, and the ability to hold onlie servers that don't lag overseas. With better tools, developers can make better games.
One of the most interesting thing about the PS3, is its ability to create real-life action. I am not sure on the name, but for example; say you shoot enemies in a war zone area, and they all die the same 6 or 7 ways. The PS3 has te technology for one of your foes to get caught on a barbed fence as they fall and hang there, while the weight of their body causes realistic force to move the barb wire realistically. this technology any sort of terrain can change the cause and effect. It's quite advanced technology. I am not saying the Wii needs this, but one must think that Nintendo is lagging in the hardware department.

If it was all about the games, then why did we buy Wiis? Why don't we just play NES (Lots of great games) with powergloves? Because of technological advancements, thats why.

Hardly a good comparison since you're including a couple games on the Wii side. Also, your XBox 360 doesn't enable you to game with your family. So the comparison really isn't fair.

Perhaps this was a bit unjustified on my part. I was just getting at the fact that to play with multiple people in a lively free spoken environment requires about the same amount of money as something that may look cheaper at first.

[BenoitRen]

You said it yourself how many third parties have "rushed" into the Wii with the addition of motion control schemes. This is letting the hardcore gamer down.

As if the XBox 360 and PS3 didn't let the "hardcore gamer" down at launch and the months that followed.

Hardware isn't just graphics. It can be things such as physics engines, real-time environmental control, and the ability to hold onlie servers that don't lag overseas. With better tools, developers can make better games.

And just because the Wii isn't a super computer doesn't mean developers can't make good games on it with nice engines. Last generation the PS2 was the weakest, even weaker than the Dreamcast and the GameCube (which was supposed to be less powerful). No one complained (except Sega fanboys like me ), and great games were made.

If servers lag only overseas, that's not a Wii hardware problem.

One of the most interesting thing about the PS3, is its ability to create real-life action. I am not sure on the name, but for example; say you shoot enemies in a war zone area, and they all die the same 6 or 7 ways. The PS3 has te technology for one of your foes to get caught on a barbed fence as they fall and hang there, while the weight of their body causes realistic force to move the barb wire realistically. this technology any sort of terrain can change the cause and effect. It's quite advanced technology. I am not saying the Wii needs this, but one must think that Nintendo is lagging in the hardware department.

Again, this is the kind of talk coming from people who fall for Sony's hype about their super-duper Cell architecture. The XBox 360 can do this just as well. So can the Wii, though admittedly it isn't as easy. Don't fall for Sony's arrogance.

If it was all about the games, then why did we buy Wiis? Why don't we just play NES (Lots of great games) with powergloves? Because of technological advancements, thats why.

No, because it's where the new fun games are at, and because of a new way to experience them with the wii-mote. As for the Power Glove, we both know that failed.

Why did we buy GameCubes? Why did we buy Game Boy Advances? etc. Because they had fun games we wanted to play. That doesn't discredit the NES in the least.

[Neo48]

As if the XBox 360 and PS3 didn't let the "hardcore gamer" down at launch and the months that followed.

True, they did. But for different reasons other than games. Xbox's fell apart, and PS3 doesn't have good marketing like the Wii. The Wii has been game quality so far.

And just because the Wii isn't a super computer doesn't mean developers can't make good games on it with nice engines. Last generation the PS2 was the weakest, even weaker than the Dreamcast and the GameCube (which was supposed to be less powerful). No one complained (except Sega fanboys like me ), and great games were made.

If servers lag only overseas, that's not a Wii hardware problem.

That is very true. Good games can still be made. in fact, there are a few good Wii games out already. But there are some areas that the Wii lacks. I'm not ech whiz, but we know from specs that the Wii lacks. Therefore it makes it difficult for developers to achieve such advanced goals.

Again, this is the kind of talk coming from people who fall for Sony's hype about their super-duper Cell architecture. The XBox 360 can do this just as well. So can the Wii, though admittedly it isn't as easy. Don't fall for Sony's arrogance.

First I want to say that I am not a sony fan-boy. I've never even played a Final fantasy game, haha. However, i was very intrigued by Sony's display of the technology, and thought that it was amazing to be able to impose such realistic effects.

Also, this may come from my own opinion. I am a big fan of realism. One of the greatest games for GC, RE4, was amazing. I remember firing over the shoulder of a ganados, and blowing off a chunk of wooden door behind him. To me, that is gaming in realism. It's something that stands out to me in games.

No, because it's where the new fun games are at, and because of a new way to experience them with the wii-mote. As for the Power Glove, we both know that failed.

Why did we buy GameCubes? Why did we buy Game Boy Advances? etc. Because they had fun games we wanted to play. That doesn't discredit the NES in the least.

I bought a gamecube because there would be no more N64 games made. And it is the hope that games just as good will come out. Also, the idea of technological advancement excites many.

[BenoitRen]

But there are some areas that the Wii lacks. I'm not ech whiz, but we know from specs that the Wii lacks. Therefore it makes it difficult for developers to achieve such advanced goals.

People only think it lacks because the two other consoles are super-powerful in comparison (and the price tag shows it). It's all relative. If we were still dealing with the previous generation, another console would be pointed at as not being advanced enough for whatever technological feature of the moment.

First I want to say that I am not a sony fan-boy. I've never even played a Final fantasy game, haha. However, i was very intrigued by Sony's display of the technology, and thought that it was amazing to be able to impose such realistic effects.

I'm not saying you are, but Sony is always quite arrogant with its technology, and there are always people falling for it. Remember the PS2 hype before launch? Back then it was this miraculous "Emotion Engine", and how that would add more realism.

I am a big fan of realism. One of the greatest games for GC, RE4, was amazing. I remember firing over the shoulder of a ganados, and blowing off a chunk of wooden door behind him. To me, that is gaming in realism. It's something that stands out to me in games.

zomg but it was a GameCube game, even more 'lacking' than the Wii! It's not possible! (/sarcasm)

[Neo48]

People only think it lacks because the two other consoles are super-powerful in comparison (and the price tag shows it). It's all relative. If we were still dealing with the previous generation, another console would be pointed at as not being advanced enough for whatever technological feature of the moment.

The Xbox 360 isn't as powerful as the PS3, and I don't feel it is lacking. The technology being used in the Wii is quite a bit older. The technology has been around quite a bit longer than what the other consoles are using. Although, it is still pwerful enough to do some interesting things. Its just, what are we going to see in Wii games that we haven't already seen technically?

I'm not saying you are, but Sony is always quite arrogant with its technology, and there are always people falling for it. Remember the PS2 hype before launch? Back then it was this miraculous "Emotion Engine", and how that would add more realism.

Could be true, although engines only get used if developers want to use them.

zomg but it was a GameCube game, even more 'lacking' than the Wii! It's not possible! (/sarcasm)

Heh, well, I can add that the chunk taken off the door was most likely a preset blast segment. in other words, hitting anywhere in the spot I took off would result in the same shape take out. but that is besides the point. The GC was good. Metroid Prime was done not long into the Gamecubes lifespan, so the right people knew how to do it. F-Zero GX is another beautiful GC game. But, anything that ws done on the GC could have been done on the other consoles at the time. And could have been done more powerfully.

Also, the gap between the gamecube and the Xbox/PS2, is not as large as what the gap between the Wii and 360/PS3 is. (technically)

[BenoitRen]

The technology being used in the Wii is quite a bit older.

Not that much. It has that dual-core processor from the same family as the CPUs used in the other consoles, and a vastly improved graphics chipset.

But, anything that ws done on the GC could have been done on the other consoles at the time.

Not on the PS2. The GameCube's CPU was more powerful, and the graphics chipset was much more advanced.

[Ultema]

I missed your IM the other day due to heading out to the doctor's...

But honestly, none of the systems have currently piqued my interest at all, truth be told. I'm rather disappointed simply because it doesn't seem as though any of my fandoms will be getting quality games any more, as they haven't for at very least, 7 years.

I suppose you could relate this back to my not being interested in anything. I've felt so let down in the past by all companies that I just don't have any interest in keeping up with what's going on any more. :\

I don't plan on touching any new system until I'm assured that I'll give a damn about anything that's on them, haha.

[LaconianShot]

That's probably the smartest approach of all.
I've got a DS, because I've seen some games of serious quality released for it, but I'm not touching any of the new consoles either, until I see how things pan out. I've heard recently that the new model PS3s will not be backwards compatible with the PS2, so for me, that's a huge detractor.

[Neo48]

That is true I think. No PSU on your PS3

Laconian, I must say that an investment in the Wii is worth while. There is many time left in its life span, and it is cheap. It also has a lot of interest from third party.

Hell, honestly. 4 Reasons to buy a Wii: Link, Samus, Mario, Brawl. There. Twilight Princess was an amazig adventure. Metroid Prime 3 is incredible, the games controls will make it feel like Metroid Prime 1 again (fresh). It also pushes the Wii graphically the same way that Metroid Prime 1 pushed the Gamecube. Every game review site is saying great things about Super Mario Galaxy. The game also looks good, and many have said it features great platforming (From what has been seen). And well, Super Smash Bros Brawl, which is having a lot of effort put into it, and it doesn't seem to be straying to far from what Melee is like in terms of its rules of physics. (And why would they change it? haha).

There are also many things coming to the Wii that avoided the gamecube, such as Guitar Hero 3. Also, I know you are a big Fire Emblem fan, the Wii is getting one of those as well.

If ever you need a reason to prove to yourself that the Wii isn't gimmicky, play Metroid Prime 3. It will wipe all doubt from your mind.

[BenoitRen]

Twilight Princess was an amazig adventure.

It's also available for the GameCube, though, and I know LaconianShot played that one. Personally, I'll get the GameCube version too, because there they didn't mirror the world.

[Neo48]

But nothing feels as great as aiming with the bow.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

But nothing feels as great as aiming with the bow.

Actually, that was a fucking pain when you have to wait for the motion sensoring to be activated after a couple of seconds.