Post what's on your mind now

[Black Sword]

Um...dude, Macross 7...really wasn't that good. Seriously, just...no.

0's ending is a zero with me because it didn't fulfill a damned thing. Ya know what? I can accept Sara folding away with the nukes and dying. Ok. I can accept Shin dying as his VF-0 crashes and burns into the sea. Tolerable, tragic ending. Hell, we're talking about a series that killed humanity 2/3s of its run through, killed Roy Fokker and Ben Dixon, and made us feel the deaths, so ok. What I object to is...well, the sloppy artsy ending. Sara folded away, and Shin's VF-0 is stalling, he can't eject, he's a dead man...then all of a sudden it starts gliding on fold waves, and flies up into the sky? How? Why? What the fuck? If that's enough to make you happy, more power to you, but I didn't like it at all, and I'm not alone in finding it distasteful.

Anyway, Do You Remember Love is an in-universe movie, from what I understand, and the two Frontier movies are being treated in a similar way. Which is a major saving throw.

Splice their genes. You're the mad scientist. You have students to do you work for you, don't you?

[Wing-0]

Reember Love was not originally intended as an in-universe movie. It was intended as a reimagining of the original series. Much like the original Battlestar Galactica and the new, shiny version are to each other. Actually, as far as Kawamori was concerned for a long time, he was done with Macross until a different studio released Macross II which followed the events of the movie. This apparently triggered a feeling of "WTF, dude, Macross is mine..." in Kawamori and then he decided to return to the franchise, eliminating Macross II from any continuity and making Macross Plus himself (creating the setting and machines while he gave more attention to Escaflowne and later directing the movie version) and had Tetsuro Amino work on Macross 7. The fans started asking him questions like "Which one is canon, the DYRL movie or the TV series?" His original answer was "Take your pick and the one you like the best is the canonical one." The problem is that while Macross Plus was more coherent with the mechanical designs of the movie, Macross 7 was a horrendous mess, drawing from both sources. In one episode, a movie based on the events of Space War I was being filmed and the armor and uniform of zentradi officers was developed from both the TV and movie versions. Milia, a character from the original series wore a flight suit based on the TV series and some mechanical designs were directly based on the movies. A complete mess if you ask me.

The end result was that Kawamori placed DYRL as an in-universe movie with LOTS of artistic liberties filmed in 2030 or 2031, stated that the reason the Macross looks that way with the ARMD 01 and ARMD 02 spacecraft launching platforms was because in some year (I forgot, yay me), the UN government decided to refit the Macross with what was originally supposed to be fitted with, not the makeshift desperate measure of docking the Daedauls and Prometheus aircraft carriers and that that's why the Macross looked like the movie version's in 2040.

Regarding the ending in 0, I still don't get what you mean with "sloppy artsy ending". What is artsy to you? Sloppy I can interpret that the ending was very short and rushed. Yes, surprise, I do think it was rushed.

If you're asking me about WHY Shin's Phoenix comes out gliding, there is no official explanation that I know of. There MIGHT be one in the official magazine Macross Ace, but I don't buy it because its cost is too prohibitive and when choosing between games and a magazine... I guess it's not difficult to imagine which one I'll choose. But I deviated... The fan speculation (some people like calling it theories) that I have encountered that makes the most sense to me is that Sara AND Mao lifted Shin. Remember there was a scene with Sara lifting rocks in the air while she sang and that when the scene of Shin getting out of the water changed to Mao, she looked like she had made a very large effort and exhausted herself. She was also stated to have been "reborn" and had some degree of control over that ancient technology, so the possibility of her being able to command the same gravity defying capabilities of the crashed spaceship that the Mayan island really was wouldn't be far out, sounding to many fans I have encountered like a solid explanation. As I said, that is nothing more that fan speculation with some grounds on what is shown on screen. Does it look ridiculous? Hmmmm... yeah, it may look ridiculous. Does it contradict what was shown before? Nope.

So far I don't know how the production team treats the Frontier movies}. I'd prefer them to be regarded as non canon since the series, overcrowded with filler material as it was, actually presented a lot of content, which I see as enriching to the overall Macross universe.

That's also the thing with Macross 7... A portion of it is good because of the content it provided to the overall continuity, but... singing to energy sucking monsters, repetition of a single song (Totsugeki Love Heart) ad nauseum, the IDIOTIC inclusion of "song energy", but most of all, the incredibly FRAKING ASSHOLE that is Basara Nekki leave me not liking the overall result. The protodeviln introduced as one of the reasons the ancient protoculture went downhill is okay, I think. It does give an explanation for the Supervision Army that the zentradi were fighting against and the SDF-1 Macross being actually a refurbished Supervision Army vessel as mentioned briefly during the original series.

What I think Kawamori should do for his next Macross production (because yes, Frontier is laying golden eggs), is to show the actual Supervision Army, throw them against the Human-Zentradi-Zolan coalition (YES! The Zolans from Macross Dynamite 7 are canon! Michael Blanc from Frontier is part Zolan!) and have a MASSIVE fight between them and dub it Space War II. All of this while throwing the campy idiocy of Macross 7, school setting from Frontier and sound energy from 7 out through a window, from a 100 floor skyscraper. All of this in favor of psychological drama. After all, the Supervision Army IS supposed to be protoculture remnants fighting against zentradi and part of the latter being already allied with humanity and zolans, which are direct offshoots/products of said protoculture. OR... keeping in line with the "triangular" theme that is so evident in Macross, have a three way conflict. The Human/Zentradi/Zolan coalition VS Supervision Army VS a different Zentradi fleet. After all, in Space War I only Golg Boddole Zer's fleet appeared and only he was blown to little bits from among who knows how many THOUSANDS or even MILLIONS of fleets in existence. All of this while answering the ages old question of "What happened to the Megaroad-01 which had Hikaru, Misa and Minmay in it?" for the lulz. If they tell us "They died in a fold accident", I'm really going to laugh at the irony of it all.

[Wing-0]

Oh, and... Splicing their genes? Nah... Any kind of mutations I could cause would appear in later generations... Too much work, too little interest... =P

[Black Sword]

That's an impressive amount of information. Some of it I was aware of, but it still doesn't change the canon as is, namely that DYRL is a movie now, as opposed to a re-telling. And whatever his claims about the refit, in Frontier, the Macross is still in its lake, and still has the Daedulus and Prometheus as the arms, which I'm fairly certain overrules his earlier contention. Le oops.

I'm glad we agree on sloppy. As for artsy, I think it's my natural instinct identifying what Kawamori did. Never kid a kidder, or in this case, never do something for the art when your audience includes writers. It looked pretty, which is fine, but there was nothing that strongly supported it as a conclusion beforehand, especially not the blue light trail and the phoenix fold. I'm sure the fans have created a good explanation, but the same scenes they cite as proof don't really support it strongly enough, I think.

How was Frontier filled with filler? Thus far, each Macross had a different focus. In the original, we had a the original creation of a Macross series, the music, the battles, and the love triangle. In 7 (ugh) it was the music (God help us all). In Plus, the mecha. In Frontier, it was the love triangle. You may hate the school setting and the triangle, but I think it worked fantastically well, especially as a story. Though I'm glad we both agree to treating the Frontier movies as nonserial movies!

As for 7...ugh. Can we please just remove the things that are of use and pretend the rest of it never happened? Hell, I'd support a freakin' remake at this point that disposes of the more ridiculous parts and canonizes the decent material. Seriously, 7...I lack words for it.

And...I can't agree. Sorry. Macross has its own special hallmarks, and the sort of psychological drama you want is more Gundam territory. If they make something along the lines of the original Macross, super! It would make a great story, mind you, but doesn't really fit the spirit. And honestly...I think that the Megaroad-1 question would be better remaining as a mystery. Besides, isn't Michael being part-Zolan novel territory? Damnable multiple canons...

Wait, speaking of that, do you have the novels? Or translations of the drama CDs? Or a scanlation of the Macross manga based on the drama CD?

EDIT: So? What else are you going to do while you're waiting for your antimatter experiments to bear fruit?

[Zucca]

*facepalm*

[Wing-0]

That's an impressive amount of information. Some of it I was aware of, but it still doesn't change the canon as is, namely that DYRL is a movie now, as opposed to a re-telling. And whatever his claims about the refit, in Frontier, the Macross is still in its lake, and still has the Daedulus and Prometheus as the arms, which I'm fairly certain overrules his earlier contention. Le oops.

I wasn't really paying much attention when they showed the Macross in Frontier. To be honest, I was overwhelmed by the Vajra descending on the city and the music. I blame Yoko Kanno for that. If it does have the Daedalus and Prometheus, then they really effed it up... I just hope they don't take it as an excuse to remove the TV series from canon, if they ever thought of having it that way

I'm glad we agree on sloppy. As for artsy, I think it's my natural instinct identifying what Kawamori did. Never kid a kidder, or in this case, never do something for the art when your audience includes writers. It looked pretty, which is fine, but there was nothing that strongly supported it as a conclusion beforehand, especially not the blue light trail and the phoenix fold. I'm sure the fans have created a good explanation, but the same scenes they cite as proof don't really support it strongly enough, I think.

I can't comment on the matter using "theories", or as I call them, fan speculation. I only cited that to mention that in an absence of a direct explanation, that's what people came up with. That's something I don't like to have when the rest of the story does not rely on ambiguous storytelling, only to BAM! Get an odd ending with lots of that. I have heard that the reason the final episode was like that was because the production studio, not Kawamori and his crew, but the actual animation studio was under some bad economic circumstances. Makes a bit of sense, since the time they took to release all five episodes of Zero took way too much, which in turn came to hurt the sales. Macross Zero is a failed economic venture, I hear. Still, since we have talked about the circumstances of the ending, I can ask some bigger Macross freaks than me about it. You know, the kind that start foaming from the mouth at the sole mention of anything related to Gundam.

How was Frontier filled with filler? Thus far, each Macross had a different focus. In the original, we had a the original creation of a Macross series, the music, the battles, and the love triangle. In 7 (ugh) it was the music (God help us all). In Plus, the mecha. In Frontier, it was the love triangle. You may hate the school setting and the triangle, but I think it worked fantastically well, especially as a story. Though I'm glad we both agree to treating the Frontier movies as nonserial movies!

Some parts of the story would have worked better being smaller, I think. As an example, Sheryl's visit to the school and later enrollment. I'm talking about her chasing the vajra larva all over the school for her panties. The Zero movie wasn't THAT good for me either, but that's just a matter of personal taste, there are several things I loved in that episode. The whole Gallia 4 incident with the asshole Zentradi Temjin and the commander of that regiment, Ohgotwhai (How I memorize those names is still a mistery to me), even if some parts like the subsequent incident in the Macross class ship from the 117th fleet (if my memory still works) was excellent both for the advancement of the story AND the mecha porn that ensued.

Regarding the school setting, it's not that I HATE it. I just don't like it. My interest lies more in the reasons Grace's group had with Birla (my romanization), the owner of SMS and how Sheryl ended up in Grace's care and use as a tool. None of those aspects were developed in the movie. In that particular respect, the ending of the series left me wanting more. The thing is, I already know there was a manga telling Sheryl's back story in the 21st fleet.

The triangle between Alto, Sheryl and Ranka was for me one of the highlights of the series actually. It was very well developed and I liked one thing especially: None of the girls ever went into full hate mode against each other. They respected each other both as friends and professionally, even during Sheryl's lowest days both due to her failing health and professional descent, making her grow more as an artist and as a person, which even led her to teach Ranka one important thing when she hesitated and acted selfish. To be a professional. Sheryl is for that reason one of my top favorite characters as a result.

As for 7...ugh. Can we please just remove the things that are of use and pretend the rest of it never happened? Hell, I'd support a freakin' remake at this point that disposes of the more ridiculous parts and canonizes the decent material. Seriously, 7...I lack words for it.

7 is for me the worst part of the whole franchise. I never liked that idiocy of singing to your opponents even if they're trying to kill you. Basara is the most despised, imbecilic piece of SHIT in anime ever for me. I started counting how many pilots ended up being shot, buildings heavily damaged and civilian casualties only because the mother fraker only wanted to sing. FRAK!! If I was the captain, I would have shot the bastard myself! Either that, or deny him entry back into the ship and let him die of hunger or asphyxia, whichever came first inside his VF-19 by just folding away. After all, the 19 isn't usually equipped with a fold booster. And if that pink haired pipsqueak came crying or complaining, I'd only tell her "Get yourself a new surname if you don't like it, now GTFO."

And...I can't agree. Sorry. Macross has its own special hallmarks, and the sort of psychological drama you want is more Gundam territory. If they make something along the lines of the original Macross, super! It would make a great story, mind you, but doesn't really fit the spirit. And honestly...I think that the Megaroad-1 question would be better remaining as a mystery. Besides, isn't Michael being part-Zolan novel territory? Damnable multiple canons...

Perhaps not psychological drama. That's way too dark, more in the realm of Battlestar Galactica. Not even Gundam goes so deep into the psyche of people pulling triggers, except for maybe MS-Igloo, which I haven't watched. An atypical story that so far seems to be canon to me that I consider one good example of how to write a game story that is based on an animated series. Macross VF-X2 for the Playstation. In that one, you play as a character named Aegis Focker (probably a descendant of a clone of Roy Focker. Yes, people resorted to cloning people in order to fill the empty spots after the war. Official canon material). The story is about an incident in which the head of a special forces outfit initiates a coup against the UN government and hijacks the Macross Class warship number 13. During that game's story you go from working for the UN Spacy inside that special forces group and fight against two connected "terrorist" groups called Black Rainbow, whose leader you kill and then Vindirance, whose leaders you either kill or join, all depending on your own choice. There is a small implication at a love triangle, but not overtly shown. There is a scene with pillow talk between Aegis and his wingmate, an officer by the name of Suzie Newtlett if you get a good enough rank in one of the missions. Actually, now that I remember, Aegis was a loose dick, going out on dates with all the girls... Although he seems to have picked Suzie at the end, who defects from the UN Spacy to go help Aegis in the final battle much to my personal joy.

Music and singing take a back seat, though. They probably didn't know how to implement it back then. It was actually the very first good game made for a console, after the HORRIBLE VF-X1 fiasco, which had a terrible story and emphasis on music. The ending song was good, but the story... UGH... A group of five top charting singers have been kidnapped and split around in different planets. Now it's your job to retrieve them alive, defeat the eeeeeeevil Zentradi behind it and kick the ass of a new transforming mecha that will never really shine. ZOMG LOL, insert an image of my brain popping several vessels at the same time for massive brain hemorrhage. It's canon too, I think...

Wait, speaking of that, do you have the novels? Or translations of the drama CDs? Or a scanlation of the Macross manga based on the drama CD?

EDIT: So? What else are you going to do while you're waiting for your antimatter experiments to bear fruit?

I wish... Scanlations of the Macross: The First manga isn't coming because the manga, while selling well, comes out every six months or one year each time it does. The quality is excellent, however. The Macross 7 Trash manga is already scanlated, but... It's a side story to Macross 7 with nothing to do with mecha. Instead, we get an asshole kid with paternity issues skating as a sport... WHAT. THE. FRAK. NO.

I wish I had some drama CDs. If you SOMEHOW manage to get a hold of one, tell me and I can attempt to at least make a decent summary out of it. Word of warning: Stay clear of the Macross Frontier manga. It sucks dead donkey ass.

EDIT: I dunno... Scratch my belly button?

On the cat topic, my big, evil gray cat just gave birth. Number not determined. She chose a very good hiding spot to use. I could see a black thing moving, which must be a kitten, but other than that one, I can't say how many were born, died, survived or whatever. She was in good health, though... I just hope she recovers. For the time being, I'm going to lay lots of food and water for her. I just can't get anywhere close to her anymore. The name Piranha Cat is not without merit.

[carlsojos]

Whoa, this place is hittin' the debate track hard.

All I know is that I wasted this entire day watching a story H-Man started working on.

[Wing-0]

Aren't discussion boards precisely for that? =P

[carlsojos]

True, true. I just noticed that those are some massive posts.

[Wing-0]

Yyyyyeah... They are... But it's all Black Sword's fault. Get me talking about a topic I really like and I just keep on babbling... His fault... entirely... =P

[Black Sword]

Ah, Yoko Kanno. We love you, you ravishing composing demigoddess you. And yeah, here's the picture of that scene. Notice the design. Prometheus and Daedalus. And I will defenestrate Kawamori myself if he even attempts it. http://shounen.chungyc.org/wp-content/u ... s-city.jpg

That's... a fairly dangerous proposition, asking them. I guess I should wish you Godspeed, huh? Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the whole story, but it still doesn't explain the Frontier movie 2 ending, since Kawamori had more than enough cash on hand for that one, so...

Hey, the pantsu scene was funny for me. Anyway, I think the near-mutiny of the 33rd Marine Battalion was very useful for the overall story, and the 117th Survey story thread it set up was handled quite nicely. I suppose seeing more of Grace would have been great for answers, but it would have removed from her evil bitch mystique. Nothing quite like the evil you can't understand. And a thousand times yes to how great the girls were about everything, including each other.

Don’t. Remind. Me. PLEASE. Mercy killing Basura would have helped 7 so freakin’ much. Shoot him, ditch him, GET RID OF HIM, PLEASE. Besides. Cap’n wouldn’t have accepted that total loser as a son-in-law in a thousand years. VF-19 is a waste of a perfectly good mecha on him, I tell you. On the mecha topic, how’d the VF-171 end up becoming the frontline fighter if the VF-19 was slated for that role? In-universe, I mean. In production, Kawamori didn’t want such a “heroic” fighter in the hands of grunts.

Never played it, unfortunately, so I can't judge it. I did acquire Robotech for the XBOX, but haven't gotten to it, given my massive backlog of games. ...and I don't want to know more about the first one, do I?

Here's the manga adaptation of the drama CDs. Is this the one you mean sucks? There are also two volumes of the Macross adaptation on there. Two rather perverse doujins as well, if you want to be the hero to hundreds of fappers. http://www.jlist.com/product/HEM175 On that topic, I need to whore myself out to Japanese fan girls. I wanted to get a VF-25 model, but it costs so freakin' much to import, let alone buy...

Totally not my fault, by the way.

[Wing-0]

Ah, Yoko Kanno. We love you, you ravishing composing demigoddess you. And yeah, here's the picture of that scene. Notice the design. Prometheus and Daedalus. And I will defenestrate Kawamori myself if he even attempts it. http://shounen.chungyc.org/wp-content/u ... s-city.jpg

Those are the ARMD platforms, not the Daedalus and Prometheus. It's especially evident in the "right arm", since the Daedalus is very narrow, as opposed to the ARMD that is very wide in comparison. Imagine the Daedalus like a bar of bread you buy at the grocery store, while the ARMD is more like a cereal box.

That's... a fairly dangerous proposition, asking them. I guess I should wish you Godspeed, huh? Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the whole story, but it still doesn't explain the Frontier movie 2 ending, since Kawamori had more than enough cash on hand for that one, so...

Not all of them are foamy... At least not the ones I talk to. There are several crazies there, but I usually avoid posting on the same topics. I can't say anything about the second Frontier movie except that maybe he did it for the LULZ. What I said only applies to Zero.

Hey, the pantsu scene was funny for me. Anyway, I think the near-mutiny of the 33rd Marine Battalion was very useful for the overall story, and the 117th Survey story thread it set up was handled quite nicely. I suppose seeing more of Grace would have been great for answers, but it would have removed from her evil * mystique. Nothing quite like the evil you can't understand. And a thousand times yes to how great the girls were about everything, including each other.

I think some of the events could have worked better in other ways, but let's leave it at that since we're going to go in circles there. All I'll add is that yes, Ai-kun's oddisey to steal the oh-so-priced Panties Of The Galactic Fairy was amusing, but a whole episode? The animation in that episode was also subpar.

Don’t. Remind. Me. PLEASE. Mercy killing Basura would have helped 7 so freakin’ much. Shoot him, ditch him, GET RID OF HIM, PLEASE. Besides. Cap’n wouldn’t have accepted that total loser as a son-in-law in a thousand years. VF-19 is a waste of a perfectly good mecha on him, I tell you. On the mecha topic, how’d the VF-171 end up becoming the frontline fighter if the VF-19 was slated for that role? In-universe, I mean. In production, Kawamori didn’t want such a “heroic” fighter in the hands of grunts.

Well, Millia DID try to get Mylene to hook up with Basura (love the nickname), so...

In-universe, the VF-171 becoming the mainstay of the UN Spacy was because of several reasons. First, the VF-19 vastly outperformed older generation spacecraft like the VF-11 Thunderbolt, then the main fighter in service and the VF-17 Nightmare which was then a special forces craft, as well as the low cost, limited production VF-14 Vampire for migrant fleets. That was for performance only. Another problem was supposed to be the high cost of production AND the fact that both the YF-19 and YF-21 each, single handedly penetrated the Earth's lines of defense, destroyed who knows how many defense satellites, engaged the Ghost X9, the YF-21 destroyed it and then the YF-19 directly went head to head against the anti air defenses of the SDF-1 Macross, then under control of Sharon Apple, overcame it with sheer badass maneuvering mad skillz and then crashed its main computer. Literally. If that doesn't add up to make authorities think twice about mass producing them and allocating them as resources to migrant fleets, then I don't know what it all adds up. The VF-19 and VF-22 were then completed as special operations craft, with the VF-19 serving both as a squad leader and special forces unit and the VF-22 being destined only to special force use. That's why in Macross 7 (despite how much I hate it), the VF-19 was shown as a special operations fighter (Emerald Force) in its F and S variants, special testing for idiocy in its E variant, then modified to look ugly as sin and the VF-22 used only by former aces Maximilian Jenius and Millia Fallyna Jenius.

TL;DR: Dangerous machines are better suited to small production numbers.

Back to the VF-171 Nightmare Plus, the final in-universe explanation was that since the other superior monsters proved scary, the UN high command took a look at the aging VF-17 and said "That one's way cheaper to produce. Let's update it instead" and that's how the modest, cheap and rather cute VF-171 Nightmare Plus came into being.

Never played it, unfortunately, so I can't judge it. I did acquire Robotech for the XBOX, but haven't gotten to it, given my massive backlog of games. ...and I don't want to know more about the first one, do I?

I had the PS2 version of Battlecry. The game mechanics were decent, but the story was so freaking annoying and the artwork... OH MY FRAKING HELLO KITTY!!! Those drawings made my eyes bleed!! Freaking proportions were so damn wrong and the coloring! THE COLORING!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! THE NIGHTMARES I ENDURED!!!

VF-X2 was a good game. Not revolutionary in the least, but I can say that I had TONS of fun with it. It featured from the VF-1 up to the VF-22 and even the Koenig Monster. Remember Canaria's badass machine? THAT one.

Here's the manga adaptation of the drama CDs. Is this the one you mean sucks? There are also two volumes of the Macross adaptation on there. Two rather perverse doujins as well, if you want to be the hero to hundreds of fappers. http://www.jlist.com/product/HEM175 On that topic, I need to whore myself out to Japanese fan girls. I wanted to get a VF-25 model, but it costs so freakin' much to import, let alone buy...

No, that one I heard about. It's supposed to be pretty good, focusing more on side stories for laughs and obviously, fan service. The one I'm referring to is the manga adaptation of the Frontier TV series... I checked the artwork and it was... bad...

And I saw the price for the VF-25F Messiah (Alto type). The price made my eyes water in despair. My red VF-1J (Millia) needs a partner. Currently it stands on top of my PS3... All alone...

Totally not my fault, by the way.

Oh, it is. Don't play dumb.

[BenoitRen]

I got banned from another message board. One more ban medal on my notch.

Why? Because I dared to say that Jews aren't saints. These days you can't say a bad word about them without being branded an anti-semite. The world's guilt towards Jews in full effect.

[Black Sword]

Mayhaps my childhood memories are playing havoc, but the design is more akin to the aircraft carrier than the ARMDs. Though honestly, the Macross was grounded after the first Space War. Retrofitting the ARMDs then would be...wasteful at best.

You're not making that ending sound any better, ya know.

Tension breaking episode. People were still sighing away the adrenaline from the episode before that, which, if I recall correctly, would be the first major Vajra battle.

Talk about your vengeful ex...

"Rather cute?" I'm fairly sure a mecha that was called that pretty much demands the right to commit seppuku to recover its honor. Still, the explanation makes sense. Though it doesn't explain why the VF-25 is now in test runs, considering that the Messiah far exceeds the power of the VF-19 and VF-21/22. Unless we're relying on military intelligence's demonstrated lack in that category.

Eh, I went on a check run. It's not super-realistic, but it's a nice, stylized cute. I've seen far worse art. And really?! Sir, get the CD adaptation manga and scanlate for we, the masses! And the perverse doujins are fine too...

Sigh. Don't remind me. I can get it. I don't have a girlfriend or anything like that to stop me. But...the price. Ugh. It hurts, man, it hurts. The other problem is that my left hand won't be very useful in putting it together...

I still say it's not my fault. We both knew we were targeted for a Macross Missile Massacre.

@benoit

Be nice to the Jews.

[BenoitRen]

Be nice to the Jews.

I will if they start being nice to the Palestinians they stole ground from.