Anchored Dark Force

[Zucca]

Yes. PD creates DFs. But no other thing/creature can create DF (by having "bad thoughts"). Right?

[TigerNightmare]

Yet it's this same line that you base your argument on Dark Falz' origin on. It's an important line, for sure.

I'm pretty sure my argument is based more on Le Roof's Algol origin story, where he either says The Profound Darkness comes to Algol in physical form as Dark Force, or The Profound Darkness' pure hate comes to Algol in physical form, which is pretty much the same to me.

The script doesn't need to outright state it. I recommend a course in logic.

It really does. If we do not know something to be true, it may or may not be true, but we need evidence to know for sure. That's pure logic, there, Mr. Spock.

If you'd bothered to read what I was saying, you'll notice that I wasn't saying that.

No, you were trying to say this:

Man allowed itself to become evil, that evil created a Dark Falz, man was further corrupted by Dark Falz, and then led to Algol. So it's a bit of both.

Which is extremely circular logic. Man allowed itself to become evil? How? Earth's apocalypse bears a striking resemblance to Krypton's. Accidentally blowing their planet up for being "fools" makes them evil? Man was so evil, Dark Force made them accidentally blow their planet up? Explain that.

Yeah, yeah, history is written by the victors, yadda yadda. You're forgetting that this is still a video game, not a novel. Besides, there's plenty of evidence to support the fact that the Profound Darkness is evil.

Oh, come on, some guy's opinionated conjecture is not evidence. Just like evil, morality is also a human construct. Why should a god care about the creations of its enemy? Would it even be able to discern the so-called innocent? Should it? If you spray Raid on the ants in your kitchen, does that make you evil? Man, woman, child, all Algolians are its jailers. It doesn't have parents, a school system, a society to tell it what is right or wrong. All it knows is that it is trapped and it wants to leave. Fighting for your people is righteous, but fighting for your freedom isn't as far off.

Now this is a valid point. But it's still a video game story, so I doubt it.

Chaz/Rudy does sound irked that The Great Light is off somewhere not fighting its own battles. Yes, it could have been incapable of destroying The Profound Darkness, but that still makes it a terribly uncaring, irresponsible parent.

Too literally? Dark Falz' name is right there.

What I was saying is that the line could also be interpreted as, "We knew, deep down, that Dark Force existed, but we could do nothing to prevent it from taking us over."

It says pretty much the same thing as the official English translation.
It only demands a rewrite in your opinion because you don't like it/can't accept it. The Earthmen were evil, plain and simple.

I don't dislike it, I just think it's messy, contradictory and very unclear. Evil is never simple either. Lex Luthor doesn't think he's evil. The villains always think they're the hero of the story, unless they're sadistic and out of their mind like The Joker.

Like what? Please don't tell me you also believe that PSIII was retconned.

PSIV retcons any and all alternative origin stories for Dark Force. I've given one such explanation for PSIII, that a second Dark Force was able to escape during PSII after Parma was destroyed.

I fail to see how this is related.

So, you're saying that Earth man is so evil, they can create a Dark Force but Algolians just aren't bad enough and that's why there aren't tons of little Dark Forces running around everywhere? Because they're just not angry and evil enough? Why only one Dark Force on Noah, then? Why not two or ten or fifty? I mean, they're that evil, right?

But DF created from "evil thoughts" seems to be too far fetched.

Yet that's exactly how the Profound Darkness creates them.

Can we please refrain from Monty Python contradiction arguments, please?

[BenoitRen]

I'm pretty sure my argument is based more on Le Roof's Algol origin story, where he either says The Profound Darkness comes to Algol in physical form as Dark Force, or The Profound Darkness' pure hate comes to Algol in physical form, which is pretty much the same to me.

It's not the same. The first implies that Dark Falz is its alter ego, while the second explains that Dark Falz is pure hate that the Profound Darkness sends through.

It really does. If we do not know something to be true, it may or may not be true, but we need evidence to know for sure. That's pure logic, there, Mr. Spock.

You're saying yourself that it may or may not be true. Hence it doesn't disprove my argument.

Which is extremely circular logic. Man allowed itself to become evil? How? Earth's apocalypse bears a striking resemblance to Krypton's. Accidentally blowing their planet up for being "fools" makes them evil? Man was so evil, Dark Force made them accidentally blow their planet up? Explain that.

I already did, and you keep putting words in my mouth instead of trying to understand what I'm saying.

Just like evil, morality is also a human construct.

If you're going to get philosophical on a simple video game story, I'm out. It's pretty obvious that the Profound Darkness is evil.

What I was saying is that the line could also be interpreted as, "We knew, deep down, that Dark Force existed, but we could do nothing to prevent it from taking us over."

Which pretty much proves that Dark Falz was near Earth when it blew up.

[Dr_Odin]

If you're going to get philosophical on a simple video game story, I'm out.

That is a stupid thing to say when the all discussions here are about these "simple vidoe game story[ies]". Benoit leave a few bits of bytes in your mind for other users theories... in this case, it does make sense.

[Zucca]

Usually the simplest explanation is the one closest to the truth.

I this case: PD creating DFs. It really doesn't matter (to me at least) if PD is creating them out of his evil, negative, thoughts or just by snapping fingers when the seal is at its weakest.

[BenoitRen]

That is a stupid thing to say when the all discussions here are about these "simple vidoe game story[ies]". Benoit leave a few bits of bytes in your mind for other users theories... in this case, it does make sense.

Things tend to get silly quickly when we start questioning good and evil in the context of JRPGs that don't attempt to question the concepts themselves.

I this case: PD creating DFs. It really doesn't matter (to me at least) if PD is creating them out of his evil, negative, thoughts or just by snapping fingers when the seal is at its weakest.

It does matter in the point I'm trying to make, therefore it matters here.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

PD is the catalyst of Dark Force recurrence. End of. It's in the script.

[BenoitRen]

[Zucca]

I this case: PD creating DFs. It really doesn't matter (to me at least) if PD is creating them out of his evil, negative, thoughts or just by snapping fingers when the seal is at its weakest.

It does matter in the point I'm trying to make, therefore it matters here.

But PD is creating DFs. No one else.
And of course he/she is creating them because he/she is angry (with evil thoughts) against Great Light.

Is DFs anchored to PD? There's no clear evidence... unless PSIII is canon. Based on the dialogue seen in PSIV it very much seems so.

And again: It does not matter to me how PD creates DFs. He/She just does that.

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

LOL Benny!

[BenoitRen]

But PD is creating DFs. No one else.

As I've repeatedly attempted to explain in this thread, the script doesn't explicitly say that, therefore you're not necessarily right. Please try to contribute to the discussion instead of re-iterating your stance.

[Zucca]

During the passage of time,
The Profound Darkness began to seethe
with feelings of hatred and revenge.
And so, at certain times, when the seal had
grown weak, The Profound Darkness’
pent-up hate separated from its base,
took on form, and made its way to Algol.
And that, of course, was “Dark Force”.

That pretty much tells that Dark Forces are parts of Profound Darkness. So if any, it's PD who's creating DFs.

[BenoitRen]

During the passage of time,
The Profound Darkness began to seethe
with feelings of hatred and revenge.
And so, at certain times, when the seal had
grown weak, The Profound Darkness’
pent-up hate separated from its base,
took on form, and made its way to Algol.
And that, of course, was “Dark Force”.

That pretty much tells that Dark Forces are parts of Profound Darkness. So if any, it's PD who's creating DFs.

[Zucca]

Ok. Let's forget the arguments then:

[BenoitRen]

You don't get it, do you? You're making the same argument as a couple pages ago, which we've already discussed to death. COME UP WITH A NEW ARGUMENT.